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Most wins
Vettel, 39 wins, age 27 55%  55%  [ 106 ]
Alonso, 32 wins, age 33 3%  3%  [ 5 ]
Hamilton, 27 wins, age 29 42%  42%  [ 80 ]
Total votes : 191
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:21 pm 
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Having more races does make it easier to compile statistics but even if you look at win percentage, Hamilton trails only Fangio, Ascari, Clark and Schumacher (and it looks like his percentage will soon eclipse Schumacher's). Also if anyone in the forum actually did some research into the level of car advantage that Fangio had during his time, they might stop talking about how modern drivers have an edge there. There were times when Fangio had a 4 second advantage to the next fastest car!

Now Clark, on the other hand, has a career that should be praised heavily. Tons of mechanical retirements and yet an unbelievably high win percentage!

1. Juan Manuel Fangio 46.15%
2. Alberto Ascari 39.39%
3. Jim Clark 34.25%
4. Michael Schumacher 29.55%
5. Lewis Hamilton 29.35%


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:49 pm 
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Sharknose wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Sharknose wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Yep, it's crazy how drivers only accumulate lots of wins and poles when they're in the best car. It almost makes you think those stats aren't a good way to evaluate the respective ability of drivers at all!


There's another aspect to this that favours modern-day drivers: the huge increase in reliability. A few decades ago, even if you had a dominant car, you would still rack up a significant number of retirements. Add to that the ever-expanding calendar . . .


Does that not somewhat balance out though? I wonder how many of Senna/Prost/Piquet/Mansell's wins came after someone in front of them retired?


That's true, but my point was that modern-day drivers rack up wins much more easily than drivers from earlier decades. Look at 1978 for example. The Lotus was utterly dominant, but only won half the races. There were only 16 races (still a lot for the '70s) and Andretti won 6, Peterson 2. Transpose that season to now and with a car like that they would have won 18 or 19 of 20 races . . .


Unlikely as they only got 11 poles from 16. even with 20 races and reliability spot on in wouldn't be more than 13/14 wins. I get your point generally but I think it evens out over a career. Prost lost lots of wins in the unreliable Renault's between 81-83 but gained a lot back in 85 and 89 especially.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:07 pm 
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After Italy 2017

1. Schumacher = 91
2. Hamilton = 83
3. Vettel = 79

4. Prost = 51
5. Senna = 41
6. Alonso = 34
7. Mansell = 31
8. Stewart = 27
9. Clark = 25
9. Lauda = 25
11. Fangio = 24
12. Piquet = 23
12. Rosberg (N) = 23
14. Hill (D) = 22
15. Hakkinen = 20
16. Raikkonen = 19
17. Moss = 16
18. Button = 15
19. Brabham = 14
19. Fittipaldi = 14
19. Hill (G) = 14

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:29 am 
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This thread has aged well


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:35 pm 
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@dolomite: Hamilton has 83? Isn't it 60?
And 46 for Vet?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:47 pm 
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paramex wrote:
@dolomite: Hamilton has 83? Isn't it 60?
And 46 for Vet?

This is projected wins at retirement from their racing career.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:06 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Sharknose wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Yep, it's crazy how drivers only accumulate lots of wins and poles when they're in the best car. It almost makes you think those stats aren't a good way to evaluate the respective ability of drivers at all!


There's another aspect to this that favours modern-day drivers: the huge increase in reliability. A few decades ago, even if you had a dominant car, you would still rack up a significant number of retirements. Add to that the ever-expanding calendar . . .


Indeed... when you have 10-20% more races per year (just over the last two decades, 300% more than the 50s), the chances to rack up wins increases significantly.
:nod:

Which for me makes Clarke's former pole record astonishing as only Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton and Vettel have bettered it.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:46 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
paramex wrote:
@dolomite: Hamilton has 83? Isn't it 60?
And 46 for Vet?

This is projected wins at retirement from their racing career.


Ah ok thanks


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:39 pm 
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Hamilton has now said that he is targeting Schumacher's win record, in the official post race press conference, saying he has less interest in the 7 titles.

The 7 titles is the hardest of Michael's records to get, as poles and wins get 'easier' as the seasons grow in races, however unless we start doing two championships per year, that remains a constant. Hamilton would have to win all four remaining championships before the new engine formula to equal Schumacher and then hope he's in a championship winning team after the shakeup in order to exceed seven.

Interestingly, Hamilton is now the driver with the highest win percentage of the commercial era, only pre 1970s drivers have a higher win rate - although Michael's percentage pre-return was 36.4 (Hamilton is presently 29.7) - but obviously since moving from Woking to Brackley Hamilton's win percentage is also significantly higher. He's won 50% of the races this season, so it would not be crazy for him to end the season with a further 3 wins at the very least. That would mean he would have won 10+ races per season since the new engine formula and with 29 needed to surpass Michael's record in 3 seasons he's certainly going to come close.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:53 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Hamilton has now said that he is targeting Schumacher's win record, in the official post race press conference, saying he has less interest in the 7 titles.

The 7 titles is the hardest of Michael's records to get, as poles and wins get 'easier' as the seasons grow in races, however unless we start doing two championships per year, that remains a constant. Hamilton would have to win all four remaining championships before the new engine formula to equal Schumacher and then hope he's in a championship winning team after the shakeup in order to exceed seven.

Interestingly, Hamilton is now the driver with the highest win percentage of the commercial era, only pre 1970s drivers have a higher win rate - although Michael's percentage pre-return was 36.4 (Hamilton is presently 29.7) - but obviously since moving from Woking to Brackley Hamilton's win percentage is also significantly higher. He's won 50% of the races this season, so it would not be crazy for him to end the season with a further 3 wins at the very least. That would mean he would have won 10+ races per season since the new engine formula and with 29 needed to surpass Michael's record in 3 seasons he's certainly going to come close.

Yeah I've actually noticed he now seems to be looking to break records, his first goal was to equal his hero Senna and now with that done he seems to be setting new targets, what's noticeable is him wanting to set the fastest lap in the races which never seemed to interest him before this season.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:39 pm 
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Had Lewis not had the car issues last season, he would be in for a much more realistic chance of equaling Schumachers 7 titles. With this years WDC pretty much already in the bag, it means he needs 3 more. Obviously we all know Lewis should have won last season, so if he happens to get 2 more titles bringing it to 6 in total, there will inevitably be a lot of disscusion about that year Rosberg got lucky. And many will count that title as Hamiltons, bringing him equal to Schumacher. :)

If he then happens to get in one of the top cars after engine changes, he will still have years to pass Schumacher. I know it's far fetched but I wouldn't be surprised to see Lewis end up with 7-8 titles and possibly up to 10.

Regarding Vettel, he also has a good chance of getting to 7, he only needs a time machine to get back to the conditions he had at RB. :)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:08 pm 
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Ocon wrote:
Had Lewis not had the car issues last season, he would be in for a much more realistic chance of equaling Schumachers 7 titles. With this years WDC pretty much already in the bag, it means he needs 3 more. Obviously we all know Lewis should have won last season, so if he happens to get 2 more titles bringing it to 6 in total, there will inevitably be a lot of disscusion about that year Rosberg got lucky. And many will count that title as Hamiltons, bringing him equal to Schumacher. :)

If he then happens to get in one of the top cars after engine changes, he will still have years to pass Schumacher. I know it's far fetched but I wouldn't be surprised to see Lewis end up with 7-8 titles and possibly up to 10.

Regarding Vettel, he also has a good chance of getting to 7, he only needs a time machine to get back to the conditions he had at RB. :)


Schumacher lost two titles in the final race - 1998 and 1997. He also probably would have won 1999 when he broke his leg. All the drivers with multiple titles have a few what ifs.

If Mercedes were to produce a dominant car again, I think he would get closer to 13-14 per season rather than 10-12 wins per season with Bottas in the car rather than Rosberg. Having said that, he could literally never win another race again after 2017. Looked what happened to Alonso, who would guess no more race wins after he won in Spain in 2013 and looked like he could win the title that year.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:06 pm 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
After Italy 2017

1. Schumacher = 91
2. Hamilton = 83
3. Vettel = 79

4. Prost = 51
5. Senna = 41
6. Alonso = 34
7. Mansell = 31
8. Stewart = 27
9. Clark = 25
9. Lauda = 25
11. Fangio = 24
12. Piquet = 23
12. Rosberg (N) = 23
14. Hill (D) = 22
15. Hakkinen = 20
16. Raikkonen = 19
17. Moss = 16
18. Button = 15
19. Brabham = 14
19. Fittipaldi = 14
19. Hill (G) = 14


This was wrong - shouuld have been:

1. Schumacher = 91
2. Hamilton = 84
3. Vettel = 79
4. Prost = 51
5. Senna = 41
6. Alonso = 34
7. Mansell = 31
8. Stewart = 27
9. Clark = 25
9. Lauda = 25
11. Fangio = 24
12. Piquet = 23
12. Rosberg (N) = 23
14. Hill (D) = 22
15. Hakkinen = 20
16. Raikkonen = 19
17. Moss = 16
18. Button = 15
19. Brabham = 14
19. Fittipaldi = 14
19. Hill (G) = 14

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:08 pm 
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After Singapore 2017:

1. Schumacher = 91
2. Hamilton = 86
3. Vettel = 79
4. Prost = 51
5. Senna = 41
6. Alonso = 34
7. Mansell = 31
8. Stewart = 27
9. Clark = 25
9. Lauda = 25
11. Fangio = 24
12. Piquet = 23
12. Rosberg (N) = 23
14. Hill (D) = 22
15. Hakkinen = 20
16. Raikkonen = 19
17. Moss = 16
18. Button = 15
19. Brabham = 14
19. Fittipaldi = 14
19. Hill (G) = 14

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:21 pm 
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Oh and just for fun, for the drivers in this list, how many races they would have won had they won at their final/current win rate after 250 races:

Fangio = 118

Clark = 87

Schumacher = 74
Hamilton = 74

Stewart = 68
Prost = 64
Senna = 64
Moss = 61
Vettel = 60

Hill (D) = 48
Mansell = 41

Lauda = 37
Hakkinen = 31

Alonso = 28
Piquet = 28
Rosberg (N) = 28
Brabham = 28
Fittipaldi = 24
Hill (G) = 20

Raikkonen = 19
Button = 12

and lastly if they only did 51 races like Fangio (not even 3 current seasons!):

Fangio = 24

Clark = 18
Schumacher = 15
Hamilton = 15

Stewart = 14
Prost = 13
Senna = 13
Moss = 12
Vettel = 12
Hill (D) = 10

Mansell = 8
Lauda = 7
Hakkinen = 6
Alonso = 6
Piquet = 6
Rosberg (N) = 6
Brabham = 6

Fittipaldi = 5
Hill (G) = 4
Raikkonen = 4
Button = 3

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:33 am 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
Oh and just for fun, for the drivers in this list, how many races they would have won had they won at their final/current win rate after 250 races:

Fangio = 118

Clark = 87

Schumacher = 74
Hamilton = 74

Stewart = 68
Prost = 64
Senna = 64
Moss = 61
Vettel = 60

Hill (D) = 48
Mansell = 41

Lauda = 37
Hakkinen = 31

Alonso = 28
Piquet = 28
Rosberg (N) = 28
Brabham = 28
Fittipaldi = 24
Hill (G) = 20

Raikkonen = 19
Button = 12

and lastly if they only did 51 races like Fangio (not even 3 current seasons!):

Fangio = 24

Clark = 18
Schumacher = 15
Hamilton = 15

Stewart = 14
Prost = 13
Senna = 13
Moss = 12
Vettel = 12
Hill (D) = 10

Mansell = 8
Lauda = 7
Hakkinen = 6
Alonso = 6
Piquet = 6
Rosberg (N) = 6
Brabham = 6

Fittipaldi = 5
Hill (G) = 4
Raikkonen = 4
Button = 3

I'd like to see one for Ascari!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:46 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
I'd like to see one for Ascari!




Fangio = 118
Ascari = 101

Clark = 87

Schumacher = 74
Hamilton = 74

Stewart = 68
Prost = 64
Senna = 64
Moss = 61
Vettel = 60

Hill (D) = 48
Mansell = 41

Lauda = 37
Hakkinen = 31

Alonso = 28
Piquet = 28
Rosberg (N) = 28
Brabham = 28
Fittipaldi = 24
Hill (G) = 20

Raikkonen = 19
Button = 12

and lastly if they only did 51 races like Fangio (not even 3 current seasons!):

Fangio = 24
Ascari = 21

Clark = 18
Schumacher = 15
Hamilton = 15

Stewart = 14
Prost = 13
Senna = 13
Moss = 12
Vettel = 12
Hill (D) = 10

Mansell = 8
Lauda = 7
Hakkinen = 6
Alonso = 6
Piquet = 6
Rosberg (N) = 6
Brabham = 6

Fittipaldi = 5
Hill (G) = 4
Raikkonen = 4
Button = 3

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:57 pm 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
mcdo wrote:
I'd like to see one for Ascari!




Fangio = 118
Ascari = 101

Clark = 87

Schumacher = 74
Hamilton = 74

Stewart = 68
Prost = 64
Senna = 64
Moss = 61
Vettel = 60

Hill (D) = 48
Mansell = 41

Lauda = 37
Hakkinen = 31

Alonso = 28
Piquet = 28
Rosberg (N) = 28
Brabham = 28
Fittipaldi = 24
Hill (G) = 20

Raikkonen = 19
Button = 12

and lastly if they only did 51 races like Fangio (not even 3 current seasons!):

Fangio = 24
Ascari = 21

Clark = 18
Schumacher = 15
Hamilton = 15

Stewart = 14
Prost = 13
Senna = 13
Moss = 12
Vettel = 12
Hill (D) = 10

Mansell = 8
Lauda = 7
Hakkinen = 6
Alonso = 6
Piquet = 6
Rosberg (N) = 6
Brabham = 6

Fittipaldi = 5
Hill (G) = 4
Raikkonen = 4
Button = 3

Cool thanks! Some man that Fangio

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:18 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Cool thanks! Some man that Fangio


Well he was, clearly, but how valid is it to compare drivers with such sigificantly different career lengths. Imagine what stats Alonso would have he he had remained in a top team after his second title. Imagine what stats Rosberg would NOT have had he not got the Merc seat for 7 straight years.

It's all a bit of fun but to extrapolate from Fangio's stats when 50 or so races covered 8 seasons...

8 seasons now is around 160 races and 50 races is not even 3 full seasons.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:09 pm 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Cool thanks! Some man that Fangio


Well he was, clearly, but how valid is it to compare drivers with such sigificantly different career lengths. Imagine what stats Alonso would have he he had remained in a top team after his second title. Imagine what stats Rosberg would NOT have had he not got the Merc seat for 7 straight years.

It's all a bit of fun but to extrapolate from Fangio's stats when 50 or so races covered 8 seasons...

8 seasons now is around 160 races and 50 races is not even 3 full seasons.

Not to mention the fact that Fangio often had a car advantage of 3-4 seconds per lap and a teammate who was so clearly designated #2 that he even once had to give Fangio his car so that Juan could finish the race...


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:51 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Ocon wrote:
Had Lewis not had the car issues last season, he would be in for a much more realistic chance of equaling Schumachers 7 titles. With this years WDC pretty much already in the bag, it means he needs 3 more. Obviously we all know Lewis should have won last season, so if he happens to get 2 more titles bringing it to 6 in total, there will inevitably be a lot of disscusion about that year Rosberg got lucky. And many will count that title as Hamiltons, bringing him equal to Schumacher. :)

If he then happens to get in one of the top cars after engine changes, he will still have years to pass Schumacher. I know it's far fetched but I wouldn't be surprised to see Lewis end up with 7-8 titles and possibly up to 10.

Regarding Vettel, he also has a good chance of getting to 7, he only needs a time machine to get back to the conditions he had at RB. :)


Schumacher lost two titles in the final race - 1998 and 1997. He also probably would have won 1999 when he broke his leg. All the drivers with multiple titles have a few what ifs.

If Mercedes were to produce a dominant car again, I think he would get closer to 13-14 per season rather than 10-12 wins per season with Bottas in the car rather than Rosberg. Having said that, he could literally never win another race again after 2017. Looked what happened to Alonso, who would guess no more race wins after he won in Spain in 2013 and looked like he could win the title that year.


Prost could have had 6.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:59 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
lamo wrote:
Ocon wrote:
Had Lewis not had the car issues last season, he would be in for a much more realistic chance of equaling Schumachers 7 titles. With this years WDC pretty much already in the bag, it means he needs 3 more. Obviously we all know Lewis should have won last season, so if he happens to get 2 more titles bringing it to 6 in total, there will inevitably be a lot of disscusion about that year Rosberg got lucky. And many will count that title as Hamiltons, bringing him equal to Schumacher. :)

If he then happens to get in one of the top cars after engine changes, he will still have years to pass Schumacher. I know it's far fetched but I wouldn't be surprised to see Lewis end up with 7-8 titles and possibly up to 10.

Regarding Vettel, he also has a good chance of getting to 7, he only needs a time machine to get back to the conditions he had at RB. :)


Schumacher lost two titles in the final race - 1998 and 1997. He also probably would have won 1999 when he broke his leg. All the drivers with multiple titles have a few what ifs.

If Mercedes were to produce a dominant car again, I think he would get closer to 13-14 per season rather than 10-12 wins per season with Bottas in the car rather than Rosberg. Having said that, he could literally never win another race again after 2017. Looked what happened to Alonso, who would guess no more race wins after he won in Spain in 2013 and looked like he could win the title that year.


Prost could have had 6.


More really if he won all his championship battles he would have taken 10 titles. He lost 4 even before he won his 1st.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:08 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
ALESI wrote:
lamo wrote:
Ocon wrote:
Had Lewis not had the car issues last season, he would be in for a much more realistic chance of equaling Schumachers 7 titles. With this years WDC pretty much already in the bag, it means he needs 3 more. Obviously we all know Lewis should have won last season, so if he happens to get 2 more titles bringing it to 6 in total, there will inevitably be a lot of disscusion about that year Rosberg got lucky. And many will count that title as Hamiltons, bringing him equal to Schumacher. :)

If he then happens to get in one of the top cars after engine changes, he will still have years to pass Schumacher. I know it's far fetched but I wouldn't be surprised to see Lewis end up with 7-8 titles and possibly up to 10.

Regarding Vettel, he also has a good chance of getting to 7, he only needs a time machine to get back to the conditions he had at RB. :)


Schumacher lost two titles in the final race - 1998 and 1997. He also probably would have won 1999 when he broke his leg. All the drivers with multiple titles have a few what ifs.

If Mercedes were to produce a dominant car again, I think he would get closer to 13-14 per season rather than 10-12 wins per season with Bottas in the car rather than Rosberg. Having said that, he could literally never win another race again after 2017. Looked what happened to Alonso, who would guess no more race wins after he won in Spain in 2013 and looked like he could win the title that year.


Prost could have had 6.


More really if he won all his championship battles he would have taken 10 titles. He lost 4 even before he won his 1st.

In terms of strike rate, I think Vettel is one of the strongest of all time. This season marks his 6th legitimate title shot (I don't think 2015 counts as a legitimate opportunity as the gap to Mercedes was too big most of the time). In his previous 5 title shots, Vettel has won 4 titles. Only his first shot in 2009 fell short.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:10 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
ALESI wrote:
lamo wrote:
Ocon wrote:
Had Lewis not had the car issues last season, he would be in for a much more realistic chance of equaling Schumachers 7 titles. With this years WDC pretty much already in the bag, it means he needs 3 more. Obviously we all know Lewis should have won last season, so if he happens to get 2 more titles bringing it to 6 in total, there will inevitably be a lot of disscusion about that year Rosberg got lucky. And many will count that title as Hamiltons, bringing him equal to Schumacher. :)

If he then happens to get in one of the top cars after engine changes, he will still have years to pass Schumacher. I know it's far fetched but I wouldn't be surprised to see Lewis end up with 7-8 titles and possibly up to 10.

Regarding Vettel, he also has a good chance of getting to 7, he only needs a time machine to get back to the conditions he had at RB. :)


Schumacher lost two titles in the final race - 1998 and 1997. He also probably would have won 1999 when he broke his leg. All the drivers with multiple titles have a few what ifs.

If Mercedes were to produce a dominant car again, I think he would get closer to 13-14 per season rather than 10-12 wins per season with Bottas in the car rather than Rosberg. Having said that, he could literally never win another race again after 2017. Looked what happened to Alonso, who would guess no more race wins after he won in Spain in 2013 and looked like he could win the title that year.


Prost could have had 6.


More really if he won all his championship battles he would have taken 10 titles. He lost 4 even before he won his 1st.

In terms of strike rate, I think Vettel is one of the strongest of all time. This season marks his 6th legitimate title shot (I don't think 2015 counts as a legitimate opportunity as the gap to Mercedes was too big most of the time). In his previous 5 title shots, Vettel has won 4 titles. Only his first shot in 2009 fell short.


Got to be up there for sure if we are judging people who have had a few opportunities. There are obviously a lot on 1 for 1.


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