planetf1.com

It is currently Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:38 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic

Most wins
Vettel, 39 wins, age 27 55%  55%  [ 109 ]
Alonso, 32 wins, age 33 3%  3%  [ 5 ]
Hamilton, 27 wins, age 29 43%  43%  [ 86 ]
Total votes : 200
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 4272
Having more races does make it easier to compile statistics but even if you look at win percentage, Hamilton trails only Fangio, Ascari, Clark and Schumacher (and it looks like his percentage will soon eclipse Schumacher's). Also if anyone in the forum actually did some research into the level of car advantage that Fangio had during his time, they might stop talking about how modern drivers have an edge there. There were times when Fangio had a 4 second advantage to the next fastest car!

Now Clark, on the other hand, has a career that should be praised heavily. Tons of mechanical retirements and yet an unbelievably high win percentage!

1. Juan Manuel Fangio 46.15%
2. Alberto Ascari 39.39%
3. Jim Clark 34.25%
4. Michael Schumacher 29.55%
5. Lewis Hamilton 29.35%


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:49 pm 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 12300
Sharknose wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Sharknose wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Yep, it's crazy how drivers only accumulate lots of wins and poles when they're in the best car. It almost makes you think those stats aren't a good way to evaluate the respective ability of drivers at all!


There's another aspect to this that favours modern-day drivers: the huge increase in reliability. A few decades ago, even if you had a dominant car, you would still rack up a significant number of retirements. Add to that the ever-expanding calendar . . .


Does that not somewhat balance out though? I wonder how many of Senna/Prost/Piquet/Mansell's wins came after someone in front of them retired?


That's true, but my point was that modern-day drivers rack up wins much more easily than drivers from earlier decades. Look at 1978 for example. The Lotus was utterly dominant, but only won half the races. There were only 16 races (still a lot for the '70s) and Andretti won 6, Peterson 2. Transpose that season to now and with a car like that they would have won 18 or 19 of 20 races . . .


Unlikely as they only got 11 poles from 16. even with 20 races and reliability spot on in wouldn't be more than 13/14 wins. I get your point generally but I think it evens out over a career. Prost lost lots of wins in the unreliable Renault's between 81-83 but gained a lot back in 85 and 89 especially.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:07 am
Posts: 938
After Italy 2017

1. Schumacher = 91
2. Hamilton = 83
3. Vettel = 79

4. Prost = 51
5. Senna = 41
6. Alonso = 34
7. Mansell = 31
8. Stewart = 27
9. Clark = 25
9. Lauda = 25
11. Fangio = 24
12. Piquet = 23
12. Rosberg (N) = 23
14. Hill (D) = 22
15. Hakkinen = 20
16. Raikkonen = 19
17. Moss = 16
18. Button = 15
19. Brabham = 14
19. Fittipaldi = 14
19. Hill (G) = 14

_________________
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:41 am
Posts: 2200
This thread has aged well


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:24 pm
Posts: 19
@dolomite: Hamilton has 83? Isn't it 60?
And 46 for Vet?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:39 pm
Posts: 3011
paramex wrote:
@dolomite: Hamilton has 83? Isn't it 60?
And 46 for Vet?

This is projected wins at retirement from their racing career.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:20 pm
Posts: 1749
Blake wrote:
Sharknose wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Yep, it's crazy how drivers only accumulate lots of wins and poles when they're in the best car. It almost makes you think those stats aren't a good way to evaluate the respective ability of drivers at all!


There's another aspect to this that favours modern-day drivers: the huge increase in reliability. A few decades ago, even if you had a dominant car, you would still rack up a significant number of retirements. Add to that the ever-expanding calendar . . .


Indeed... when you have 10-20% more races per year (just over the last two decades, 300% more than the 50s), the chances to rack up wins increases significantly.
:nod:

Which for me makes Clarke's former pole record astonishing as only Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton and Vettel have bettered it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:24 pm
Posts: 19
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
paramex wrote:
@dolomite: Hamilton has 83? Isn't it 60?
And 46 for Vet?

This is projected wins at retirement from their racing career.


Ah ok thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:39 pm
Posts: 3011
Hamilton has now said that he is targeting Schumacher's win record, in the official post race press conference, saying he has less interest in the 7 titles.

The 7 titles is the hardest of Michael's records to get, as poles and wins get 'easier' as the seasons grow in races, however unless we start doing two championships per year, that remains a constant. Hamilton would have to win all four remaining championships before the new engine formula to equal Schumacher and then hope he's in a championship winning team after the shakeup in order to exceed seven.

Interestingly, Hamilton is now the driver with the highest win percentage of the commercial era, only pre 1970s drivers have a higher win rate - although Michael's percentage pre-return was 36.4 (Hamilton is presently 29.7) - but obviously since moving from Woking to Brackley Hamilton's win percentage is also significantly higher. He's won 50% of the races this season, so it would not be crazy for him to end the season with a further 3 wins at the very least. That would mean he would have won 10+ races per season since the new engine formula and with 29 needed to surpass Michael's record in 3 seasons he's certainly going to come close.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23736
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Hamilton has now said that he is targeting Schumacher's win record, in the official post race press conference, saying he has less interest in the 7 titles.

The 7 titles is the hardest of Michael's records to get, as poles and wins get 'easier' as the seasons grow in races, however unless we start doing two championships per year, that remains a constant. Hamilton would have to win all four remaining championships before the new engine formula to equal Schumacher and then hope he's in a championship winning team after the shakeup in order to exceed seven.

Interestingly, Hamilton is now the driver with the highest win percentage of the commercial era, only pre 1970s drivers have a higher win rate - although Michael's percentage pre-return was 36.4 (Hamilton is presently 29.7) - but obviously since moving from Woking to Brackley Hamilton's win percentage is also significantly higher. He's won 50% of the races this season, so it would not be crazy for him to end the season with a further 3 wins at the very least. That would mean he would have won 10+ races per season since the new engine formula and with 29 needed to surpass Michael's record in 3 seasons he's certainly going to come close.

Yeah I've actually noticed he now seems to be looking to break records, his first goal was to equal his hero Senna and now with that done he seems to be setting new targets, what's noticeable is him wanting to set the fastest lap in the races which never seemed to interest him before this season.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 15th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:48 pm
Posts: 285
Had Lewis not had the car issues last season, he would be in for a much more realistic chance of equaling Schumachers 7 titles. With this years WDC pretty much already in the bag, it means he needs 3 more. Obviously we all know Lewis should have won last season, so if he happens to get 2 more titles bringing it to 6 in total, there will inevitably be a lot of disscusion about that year Rosberg got lucky. And many will count that title as Hamiltons, bringing him equal to Schumacher. :)

If he then happens to get in one of the top cars after engine changes, he will still have years to pass Schumacher. I know it's far fetched but I wouldn't be surprised to see Lewis end up with 7-8 titles and possibly up to 10.

Regarding Vettel, he also has a good chance of getting to 7, he only needs a time machine to get back to the conditions he had at RB. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 8718
Ocon wrote:
Had Lewis not had the car issues last season, he would be in for a much more realistic chance of equaling Schumachers 7 titles. With this years WDC pretty much already in the bag, it means he needs 3 more. Obviously we all know Lewis should have won last season, so if he happens to get 2 more titles bringing it to 6 in total, there will inevitably be a lot of disscusion about that year Rosberg got lucky. And many will count that title as Hamiltons, bringing him equal to Schumacher. :)

If he then happens to get in one of the top cars after engine changes, he will still have years to pass Schumacher. I know it's far fetched but I wouldn't be surprised to see Lewis end up with 7-8 titles and possibly up to 10.

Regarding Vettel, he also has a good chance of getting to 7, he only needs a time machine to get back to the conditions he had at RB. :)


Schumacher lost two titles in the final race - 1998 and 1997. He also probably would have won 1999 when he broke his leg. All the drivers with multiple titles have a few what ifs.

If Mercedes were to produce a dominant car again, I think he would get closer to 13-14 per season rather than 10-12 wins per season with Bottas in the car rather than Rosberg. Having said that, he could literally never win another race again after 2017. Looked what happened to Alonso, who would guess no more race wins after he won in Spain in 2013 and looked like he could win the title that year.

_________________
http://www.racefan.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:07 am
Posts: 938
DOLOMITE wrote:
After Italy 2017

1. Schumacher = 91
2. Hamilton = 83
3. Vettel = 79

4. Prost = 51
5. Senna = 41
6. Alonso = 34
7. Mansell = 31
8. Stewart = 27
9. Clark = 25
9. Lauda = 25
11. Fangio = 24
12. Piquet = 23
12. Rosberg (N) = 23
14. Hill (D) = 22
15. Hakkinen = 20
16. Raikkonen = 19
17. Moss = 16
18. Button = 15
19. Brabham = 14
19. Fittipaldi = 14
19. Hill (G) = 14


This was wrong - shouuld have been:

1. Schumacher = 91
2. Hamilton = 84
3. Vettel = 79
4. Prost = 51
5. Senna = 41
6. Alonso = 34
7. Mansell = 31
8. Stewart = 27
9. Clark = 25
9. Lauda = 25
11. Fangio = 24
12. Piquet = 23
12. Rosberg (N) = 23
14. Hill (D) = 22
15. Hakkinen = 20
16. Raikkonen = 19
17. Moss = 16
18. Button = 15
19. Brabham = 14
19. Fittipaldi = 14
19. Hill (G) = 14

_________________
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:07 am
Posts: 938
After Singapore 2017:

1. Schumacher = 91
2. Hamilton = 86
3. Vettel = 79
4. Prost = 51
5. Senna = 41
6. Alonso = 34
7. Mansell = 31
8. Stewart = 27
9. Clark = 25
9. Lauda = 25
11. Fangio = 24
12. Piquet = 23
12. Rosberg (N) = 23
14. Hill (D) = 22
15. Hakkinen = 20
16. Raikkonen = 19
17. Moss = 16
18. Button = 15
19. Brabham = 14
19. Fittipaldi = 14
19. Hill (G) = 14

_________________
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:07 am
Posts: 938
Oh and just for fun, for the drivers in this list, how many races they would have won had they won at their final/current win rate after 250 races:

Fangio = 118

Clark = 87

Schumacher = 74
Hamilton = 74

Stewart = 68
Prost = 64
Senna = 64
Moss = 61
Vettel = 60

Hill (D) = 48
Mansell = 41

Lauda = 37
Hakkinen = 31

Alonso = 28
Piquet = 28
Rosberg (N) = 28
Brabham = 28
Fittipaldi = 24
Hill (G) = 20

Raikkonen = 19
Button = 12

and lastly if they only did 51 races like Fangio (not even 3 current seasons!):

Fangio = 24

Clark = 18
Schumacher = 15
Hamilton = 15

Stewart = 14
Prost = 13
Senna = 13
Moss = 12
Vettel = 12
Hill (D) = 10

Mansell = 8
Lauda = 7
Hakkinen = 6
Alonso = 6
Piquet = 6
Rosberg (N) = 6
Brabham = 6

Fittipaldi = 5
Hill (G) = 4
Raikkonen = 4
Button = 3

_________________
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 9685
Location: Ireland
DOLOMITE wrote:
Oh and just for fun, for the drivers in this list, how many races they would have won had they won at their final/current win rate after 250 races:

Fangio = 118

Clark = 87

Schumacher = 74
Hamilton = 74

Stewart = 68
Prost = 64
Senna = 64
Moss = 61
Vettel = 60

Hill (D) = 48
Mansell = 41

Lauda = 37
Hakkinen = 31

Alonso = 28
Piquet = 28
Rosberg (N) = 28
Brabham = 28
Fittipaldi = 24
Hill (G) = 20

Raikkonen = 19
Button = 12

and lastly if they only did 51 races like Fangio (not even 3 current seasons!):

Fangio = 24

Clark = 18
Schumacher = 15
Hamilton = 15

Stewart = 14
Prost = 13
Senna = 13
Moss = 12
Vettel = 12
Hill (D) = 10

Mansell = 8
Lauda = 7
Hakkinen = 6
Alonso = 6
Piquet = 6
Rosberg (N) = 6
Brabham = 6

Fittipaldi = 5
Hill (G) = 4
Raikkonen = 4
Button = 3

I'd like to see one for Ascari!

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost



FA#14


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:07 am
Posts: 938
mcdo wrote:
I'd like to see one for Ascari!




Fangio = 118
Ascari = 101

Clark = 87

Schumacher = 74
Hamilton = 74

Stewart = 68
Prost = 64
Senna = 64
Moss = 61
Vettel = 60

Hill (D) = 48
Mansell = 41

Lauda = 37
Hakkinen = 31

Alonso = 28
Piquet = 28
Rosberg (N) = 28
Brabham = 28
Fittipaldi = 24
Hill (G) = 20

Raikkonen = 19
Button = 12

and lastly if they only did 51 races like Fangio (not even 3 current seasons!):

Fangio = 24
Ascari = 21

Clark = 18
Schumacher = 15
Hamilton = 15

Stewart = 14
Prost = 13
Senna = 13
Moss = 12
Vettel = 12
Hill (D) = 10

Mansell = 8
Lauda = 7
Hakkinen = 6
Alonso = 6
Piquet = 6
Rosberg (N) = 6
Brabham = 6

Fittipaldi = 5
Hill (G) = 4
Raikkonen = 4
Button = 3

_________________
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 9685
Location: Ireland
DOLOMITE wrote:
mcdo wrote:
I'd like to see one for Ascari!




Fangio = 118
Ascari = 101

Clark = 87

Schumacher = 74
Hamilton = 74

Stewart = 68
Prost = 64
Senna = 64
Moss = 61
Vettel = 60

Hill (D) = 48
Mansell = 41

Lauda = 37
Hakkinen = 31

Alonso = 28
Piquet = 28
Rosberg (N) = 28
Brabham = 28
Fittipaldi = 24
Hill (G) = 20

Raikkonen = 19
Button = 12

and lastly if they only did 51 races like Fangio (not even 3 current seasons!):

Fangio = 24
Ascari = 21

Clark = 18
Schumacher = 15
Hamilton = 15

Stewart = 14
Prost = 13
Senna = 13
Moss = 12
Vettel = 12
Hill (D) = 10

Mansell = 8
Lauda = 7
Hakkinen = 6
Alonso = 6
Piquet = 6
Rosberg (N) = 6
Brabham = 6

Fittipaldi = 5
Hill (G) = 4
Raikkonen = 4
Button = 3

Cool thanks! Some man that Fangio

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost



FA#14


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:07 am
Posts: 938
mcdo wrote:
Cool thanks! Some man that Fangio


Well he was, clearly, but how valid is it to compare drivers with such sigificantly different career lengths. Imagine what stats Alonso would have he he had remained in a top team after his second title. Imagine what stats Rosberg would NOT have had he not got the Merc seat for 7 straight years.

It's all a bit of fun but to extrapolate from Fangio's stats when 50 or so races covered 8 seasons...

8 seasons now is around 160 races and 50 races is not even 3 full seasons.

_________________
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 4272
DOLOMITE wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Cool thanks! Some man that Fangio


Well he was, clearly, but how valid is it to compare drivers with such sigificantly different career lengths. Imagine what stats Alonso would have he he had remained in a top team after his second title. Imagine what stats Rosberg would NOT have had he not got the Merc seat for 7 straight years.

It's all a bit of fun but to extrapolate from Fangio's stats when 50 or so races covered 8 seasons...

8 seasons now is around 160 races and 50 races is not even 3 full seasons.

Not to mention the fact that Fangio often had a car advantage of 3-4 seconds per lap and a teammate who was so clearly designated #2 that he even once had to give Fangio his car so that Juan could finish the race...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 1:36 pm
Posts: 2238
lamo wrote:
Ocon wrote:
Had Lewis not had the car issues last season, he would be in for a much more realistic chance of equaling Schumachers 7 titles. With this years WDC pretty much already in the bag, it means he needs 3 more. Obviously we all know Lewis should have won last season, so if he happens to get 2 more titles bringing it to 6 in total, there will inevitably be a lot of disscusion about that year Rosberg got lucky. And many will count that title as Hamiltons, bringing him equal to Schumacher. :)

If he then happens to get in one of the top cars after engine changes, he will still have years to pass Schumacher. I know it's far fetched but I wouldn't be surprised to see Lewis end up with 7-8 titles and possibly up to 10.

Regarding Vettel, he also has a good chance of getting to 7, he only needs a time machine to get back to the conditions he had at RB. :)


Schumacher lost two titles in the final race - 1998 and 1997. He also probably would have won 1999 when he broke his leg. All the drivers with multiple titles have a few what ifs.

If Mercedes were to produce a dominant car again, I think he would get closer to 13-14 per season rather than 10-12 wins per season with Bottas in the car rather than Rosberg. Having said that, he could literally never win another race again after 2017. Looked what happened to Alonso, who would guess no more race wins after he won in Spain in 2013 and looked like he could win the title that year.


Prost could have had 6.

_________________
Shoot999: "And anyone who puts a Y on the end of his name as a nickname should be punched in the face repeatedly."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:59 pm 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 12300
ALESI wrote:
lamo wrote:
Ocon wrote:
Had Lewis not had the car issues last season, he would be in for a much more realistic chance of equaling Schumachers 7 titles. With this years WDC pretty much already in the bag, it means he needs 3 more. Obviously we all know Lewis should have won last season, so if he happens to get 2 more titles bringing it to 6 in total, there will inevitably be a lot of disscusion about that year Rosberg got lucky. And many will count that title as Hamiltons, bringing him equal to Schumacher. :)

If he then happens to get in one of the top cars after engine changes, he will still have years to pass Schumacher. I know it's far fetched but I wouldn't be surprised to see Lewis end up with 7-8 titles and possibly up to 10.

Regarding Vettel, he also has a good chance of getting to 7, he only needs a time machine to get back to the conditions he had at RB. :)


Schumacher lost two titles in the final race - 1998 and 1997. He also probably would have won 1999 when he broke his leg. All the drivers with multiple titles have a few what ifs.

If Mercedes were to produce a dominant car again, I think he would get closer to 13-14 per season rather than 10-12 wins per season with Bottas in the car rather than Rosberg. Having said that, he could literally never win another race again after 2017. Looked what happened to Alonso, who would guess no more race wins after he won in Spain in 2013 and looked like he could win the title that year.


Prost could have had 6.


More really if he won all his championship battles he would have taken 10 titles. He lost 4 even before he won his 1st.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 4272
mikeyg123 wrote:
ALESI wrote:
lamo wrote:
Ocon wrote:
Had Lewis not had the car issues last season, he would be in for a much more realistic chance of equaling Schumachers 7 titles. With this years WDC pretty much already in the bag, it means he needs 3 more. Obviously we all know Lewis should have won last season, so if he happens to get 2 more titles bringing it to 6 in total, there will inevitably be a lot of disscusion about that year Rosberg got lucky. And many will count that title as Hamiltons, bringing him equal to Schumacher. :)

If he then happens to get in one of the top cars after engine changes, he will still have years to pass Schumacher. I know it's far fetched but I wouldn't be surprised to see Lewis end up with 7-8 titles and possibly up to 10.

Regarding Vettel, he also has a good chance of getting to 7, he only needs a time machine to get back to the conditions he had at RB. :)


Schumacher lost two titles in the final race - 1998 and 1997. He also probably would have won 1999 when he broke his leg. All the drivers with multiple titles have a few what ifs.

If Mercedes were to produce a dominant car again, I think he would get closer to 13-14 per season rather than 10-12 wins per season with Bottas in the car rather than Rosberg. Having said that, he could literally never win another race again after 2017. Looked what happened to Alonso, who would guess no more race wins after he won in Spain in 2013 and looked like he could win the title that year.


Prost could have had 6.


More really if he won all his championship battles he would have taken 10 titles. He lost 4 even before he won his 1st.

In terms of strike rate, I think Vettel is one of the strongest of all time. This season marks his 6th legitimate title shot (I don't think 2015 counts as a legitimate opportunity as the gap to Mercedes was too big most of the time). In his previous 5 title shots, Vettel has won 4 titles. Only his first shot in 2009 fell short.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:10 pm 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 12300
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
ALESI wrote:
lamo wrote:
Ocon wrote:
Had Lewis not had the car issues last season, he would be in for a much more realistic chance of equaling Schumachers 7 titles. With this years WDC pretty much already in the bag, it means he needs 3 more. Obviously we all know Lewis should have won last season, so if he happens to get 2 more titles bringing it to 6 in total, there will inevitably be a lot of disscusion about that year Rosberg got lucky. And many will count that title as Hamiltons, bringing him equal to Schumacher. :)

If he then happens to get in one of the top cars after engine changes, he will still have years to pass Schumacher. I know it's far fetched but I wouldn't be surprised to see Lewis end up with 7-8 titles and possibly up to 10.

Regarding Vettel, he also has a good chance of getting to 7, he only needs a time machine to get back to the conditions he had at RB. :)


Schumacher lost two titles in the final race - 1998 and 1997. He also probably would have won 1999 when he broke his leg. All the drivers with multiple titles have a few what ifs.

If Mercedes were to produce a dominant car again, I think he would get closer to 13-14 per season rather than 10-12 wins per season with Bottas in the car rather than Rosberg. Having said that, he could literally never win another race again after 2017. Looked what happened to Alonso, who would guess no more race wins after he won in Spain in 2013 and looked like he could win the title that year.


Prost could have had 6.


More really if he won all his championship battles he would have taken 10 titles. He lost 4 even before he won his 1st.

In terms of strike rate, I think Vettel is one of the strongest of all time. This season marks his 6th legitimate title shot (I don't think 2015 counts as a legitimate opportunity as the gap to Mercedes was too big most of the time). In his previous 5 title shots, Vettel has won 4 titles. Only his first shot in 2009 fell short.


Got to be up there for sure if we are judging people who have had a few opportunities. There are obviously a lot on 1 for 1.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 1522
I'm starting to wonder if Schumacher's record might be under threat. I don't expect Mercedes to continue their dominance indefinitely but do expect them to at least be race winners for more than just a few years yet. Hamilton could get it done by the end of the 2022 season. I think he'll continue on for that long too.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 8718
Hamilton has 30 wins to go to beat Schumacher. He likely has WDC 4 now in the bag and it will be a straight fight between him and Vettel to who can get close to MS's 7 WDC's. The only foreseeable challenger to them next year is a Red Bull driver and given Red Bulls reliability issues, Renault engine and the fact they are more likely to take points from one another, its probably WDC number 5 for Hamilton or Vettel in 2018 which would put either in a very close position to matching Schumacher with 4-5 years left in their careers.

To put the 30 wins Hamilton needs into perspective, he has won 19 races since the 29th May 2016, that is 19 wins in 17 months. When you have the car the numbers can grow very quickly.

I think if Hamilton is to beat MS's win record, he needs to win say 2 more this year. That leaves 28. He then needs one more very strong year (say 12 wins) which would most likely be 2018. That will be leave him 16 wins to get spread over the over 3-5 years remainder of his career. If Mercedes carry there 2017 form into 2018 then I guess its time to begin realistic speculation of if he can do it or not this time next year.

The Mercedes party though could so easily be over by next season, nothing lasts forever.

_________________
http://www.racefan.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:07 am
Posts: 938
After Austin:

1. Schumacher = 91
2. Hamilton = 87
3. Vettel = 78
4. Prost = 51
5. Senna = 41
6. Alonso = 34
7. Mansell = 31
8. Stewart = 27
9. Clark = 25
9. Lauda = 25
11. Fangio = 24
12. Piquet = 23
12. Rosberg (N) = 23
14. Hill (D) = 22
15. Hakkinen = 20
16. Raikkonen = 18
17. Moss = 16
18. Button = 15
19. Brabham = 14
19. Fittipaldi = 14
19. Hill (G) = 14

_________________
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:39 pm
Posts: 3011
DOLOMITE on 31 Jul 2014 wrote:
1. Schumacher = 91
2. Vettel = 90
3. Hamilton = 53
4. Prost = 51
5. Senna = 41
6. Alonso = 40
7. Mansell = 31
8. Stewart = 27
9= Clark = 25
9= Lauda = 25

You read it here first ;-)

DOLOMITE on 28 Oct 2017 wrote:
After Austin:

1. Schumacher = 91
2. Hamilton = 87
3. Vettel = 78
4. Prost = 51
5. Senna = 41
6. Alonso = 34
7. Mansell = 31
8. Stewart = 27
9= Clark = 25
9= Lauda = 25

What a difference 3 years makes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:07 am
Posts: 938
After Mexico '17

For those with an interest in the past as much as the future, I've extended the list to all drivers with 10+ wins and all active winners:

1. Schumacher = 91
2. Hamilton = 87
3. Vettel = 78
4. Prost = 51
5. Senna = 41
6. Alonso = 34
7. Mansell = 31
8. Stewart = 27
9. Clark = 25
9. Lauda = 25
11. Fangio = 24
12. Piquet = 23
12. Rosberg (N) = 23
14. Hill (D) = 22
15. Verstappen (M) = 20
16. Hakkinen = 20
17. Raikkonen = 18
18. Moss = 16
19. Button = 15
20. Brabham = 14
20. Fittipaldi = 14
20. Hill (G) = 14
23. Ascari = 13
23. Coulthard = 13
25. Andretti = 12
25. Reutemann = 12
25. Jones = 12
28. Ricciardo = 12
29. Massa = 11
30. Villeneuve (J) = 11
30. Barrichello = 11
32. Peterson = 10
32. Scheckter = 10
32. Hunt = 10
32. Berger = 10
36. Bottas = 6

_________________
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 8718
I thought Verstappen would make this list now and there he is.

_________________
http://www.racefan.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:07 am
Posts: 938
lamo wrote:
I thought Verstappen would make this list now and there he is.


if he keeps going to aged 37 with 20 races/season he would finish on 396 GP!

_________________
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 8862
Does Kimi have a negative win trend as I think he's currently at 20?

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:53 am
Posts: 514
Covalent wrote:
Does Kimi have a negative win trend as I think he's currently at 20?

Yes, cut off age is 36 and Kimi is already 38 :-P


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:07 am
Posts: 938
robins13 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Does Kimi have a negative win trend as I think he's currently at 20?

Yes, cut off age is 36 and Kimi is already 38 :-P


Good spot! Better sack my QA team and fix that....

_________________
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:39 pm
Posts: 3011
DOLOMITE wrote:
robins13 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Does Kimi have a negative win trend as I think he's currently at 20?

Yes, cut off age is 36 and Kimi is already 38 :-P


Good spot! Better sack my QA team and fix that....

And there I was thinking it was just a really clever way of criticising his current form.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:58 am
Posts: 28
Location: Kansas
All the metrics seem to point to Hamilton's career as besting Vettel by the end.

Vettel is two years younger and theoretically has two more years than Hamilton remaining but by the time he is ready to retire Verstappen or another young gun will be at the peak of his powers.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:25 pm
Posts: 387
Who will have the longer career?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:58 am
Posts: 28
Location: Kansas
mmi16 wrote:
Who will have the longer career?


...or is the question "Who will have the longer productive career?" Not very many great drivers retire on top. There is usually a slow slide to mediocrity.

Hamilton's performance seems to much more reflect his current level of enthusiasm. Vettel's performance seems to reflect his willing himself forward. In the out years that could possibly benefit Vettel.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 3558
Who'll have the most competitive cars between now and the end of their careers is the question.

Anything can happen really but the direction the sport is going could harm all of their chances at setting records as there's unlikely to be 1 team dominating for the remainder of these rules and by the looks of the proposed changes and noises coming from LM and Brawn then they look like they're aiming for pretty equal competitiveness long term.

Which could mean not much between 4 or 5 teams and lots of top drivers taking wins off each other if you see what I mean. We're getting used to seeing the Champ get 10+ wins a season recently but I think next year the winner could get as little as 4 or 5 if there are 3 teams in the fight.

There could be even as many as 5 teams involved if Renault and McLaren can deliver car wise. And the driver field is getting deeper just as there could be a lot of competitive cars. 2019 you could have the current big 5 and Leclerc,Ocon,Vandoorne,Norris and Sainz battering down the door and pinching poles/wins/podiums off each other.

Might be hard for Lewis to close in on the records he hasn't already set but the ones he's got could be there for a long long time if there's a lot of competitive seats and drivers splitting all the rewards under LM's vision for the Sport.

Which could be great for us of course but not the ideal setting for smashing records.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:19 pm
Posts: 65
Out of the original 3 in the poll Alonso is out of contention. Vettel has a strong chance of overtaking Hamilton's win ratio. Ferrari are heading towards producing a very competitive car.

Two seasons like 2013 after L Ham retires would be enough. Especially as in the event of a monster Ferrari, he is likely to be alongside a newbie.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], Kev627, mikeyg123 and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group