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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:10 pm 
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and maybe a push to get button in the team is the latest rumour .

now that could be a good move for jenson ,a better car than the Honda McLaren and then at least jenson could say two fingers to ron for always keeping him waiting until the last minute regarding a drive


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:34 pm 
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Certainly with Maldonado as the only currently confirmed driver and Grosjean leaving for Haas, Renault will be looking for the best driver they can secure for their second seat, unless they're feeling like gambling on a Maldonado/rookie setup, which doesn't seem likely.

While it could end up being a good career move for Button, it would also be something of a gamble for him, since the team is currently not in the best shape and the engine is a bit of an unknown (although compared to the known state of the Honda engine, it's probably looking pretty good). I certainly wouldn't rule Button moving to Renault out as a possibility.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:21 am 
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I don't think Button will do it; I believe him that he wants to see out his career at McLaren, and the last thing he has time for is another reconstruction period at Renault. Button has already spent way too many years of his life re-building teams into supposedly competitive outfits :-P

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:35 am 
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Exediron wrote:
I don't think Button will do it; I believe him that he wants to see out his career at McLaren, and the last thing he has time for is another reconstruction period at Renault. Button has already spent way too many years of his life re-building teams into supposedly competitive outfits :-P

Which teams would that be?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:51 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
I don't think Button will do it; I believe him that he wants to see out his career at McLaren, and the last thing he has time for is another reconstruction period at Renault. Button has already spent way too many years of his life re-building teams into supposedly competitive outfits :-P

Which teams would that be?

Honda (post takeover from BAR), McLaren (post engine switch) and then hypothetically Renault (post takeover from Lotus).

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:38 am 
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:lol: :lol: :lol: This thread :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:08 am 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
I don't think Button will do it; I believe him that he wants to see out his career at McLaren, and the last thing he has time for is another reconstruction period at Renault. Button has already spent way too many years of his life re-building teams into supposedly competitive outfits :-P

Which teams would that be?

Honda (post takeover from BAR), McLaren (post engine switch) and then hypothetically Renault (post takeover from Lotus).

I see rebuilding as joining a team that needs rebuilding which certainly McLaren didn't need doing when Button joined, in fact McLaren declined under Button's watch although I'm not implying that was his fault, but then again your wording seems to be that Button himself is having to rebuild the teams into competitive outfits, is your wording wrong?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:05 am 
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I tell you I am torn.

When I first got into F1 I was a Fernando/Renault fan. Fernando goes to McLaren/Ferrari, hey I can handle that............still have a soft feeling for Renault too. Renault then disappears.........still a Renault fan.

Now.............Fernando fan, but I don't like McLaren especially with this horrible Honda powertrain. Renault is back, but it's Pastor and who knows who else. I'm American so root for Haas? What about if Rossi continues with Manor..........root for Manor?

I am quite confused here.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:10 am 
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HawaiiF1Fan wrote:
I tell you I am torn.

When I first got into F1 I was a Fernando/Renault fan. Fernando goes to McLaren/Ferrari, hey I can handle that............still have a soft feeling for Renault too. Renault then disappears.........still a Renault fan.

Now.............Fernando fan, but I don't like McLaren especially with this horrible Honda powertrain. Renault is back, but it's Pastor and who knows who else. I'm American so root for Haas? What about if Rossi continues with Manor..........root for Manor?

I am quite confused here.

You are not alone.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:47 am 
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pokerman wrote:
I see rebuilding as joining a team that needs rebuilding which certainly McLaren didn't need doing when Button joined, in fact McLaren declined under Button's watch although I'm not implying that was his fault, but then again your wording seems to be that Button himself is having to rebuild the teams into competitive outfits, is your wording wrong?

I'm defining it more broadly as just being part of a team that's in the process of rebuilding - in essence, years of career lost to being in a team that can't field a competitive car at the moment but ought to. I certainly don't mean to imply that Button is doing the rebuilding himself, as I don't personally believe in the ability of drivers to influence the competitiveness of a team to that extent.

HawaiiF1Fan wrote:
I am quite confused here.

Keep rooting for Fernando and hope he rejoins Renault? ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:11 am 
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HawaiiF1Fan wrote:
I tell you I am torn.

When I first got into F1 I was a Fernando/Renault fan. Fernando goes to McLaren/Ferrari, hey I can handle that............still have a soft feeling for Renault too. Renault then disappears.........still a Renault fan.

Now.............Fernando fan, but I don't like McLaren especially with this horrible Honda powertrain. Renault is back, but it's Pastor and who knows who else. I'm American so root for Haas? What about if Rossi continues with Manor..........root for Manor?

I am quite confused here.


Why the need ahead of time to decide who you will be rooting for? People and teams come and go. I've found myself in your position a few times - favorite drivers leaving and not really knowing who you'll root for next. Just watch races, and let it come to you, because it will.

There's been times I didn't even have a clear favorite. But then one way or the other some driver comes along that takes my interest. Vettel did so a number of years ago, now I'm feeling I'm also turning very heavily towards Verstappen and hopefully Vandoorne will get there (I've given up all hope on Frijns) because I can't ignore that he has talent in spades AND is Belgian ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:03 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I see rebuilding as joining a team that needs rebuilding which certainly McLaren didn't need doing when Button joined, in fact McLaren declined under Button's watch although I'm not implying that was his fault, but then again your wording seems to be that Button himself is having to rebuild the teams into competitive outfits, is your wording wrong?

I'm defining it more broadly as just being part of a team that's in the process of rebuilding - in essence, years of career lost to being in a team that can't field a competitive car at the moment but ought to. I certainly don't mean to imply that Button is doing the rebuilding himself, as I don't personally believe in the ability of drivers to influence the competitiveness of a team to that extent.

Yes I thought you probably didn't mean that although the wording did imply that

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:10 pm 
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mds wrote:
HawaiiF1Fan wrote:
I tell you I am torn.

When I first got into F1 I was a Fernando/Renault fan. Fernando goes to McLaren/Ferrari, hey I can handle that............still have a soft feeling for Renault too. Renault then disappears.........still a Renault fan.

Now.............Fernando fan, but I don't like McLaren especially with this horrible Honda powertrain. Renault is back, but it's Pastor and who knows who else. I'm American so root for Haas? What about if Rossi continues with Manor..........root for Manor?

I am quite confused here.


Why the need ahead of time to decide who you will be rooting for? People and teams come and go. I've found myself in your position a few times - favorite drivers leaving and not really knowing who you'll root for next. Just watch races, and let it come to you, because it will.

There's been times I didn't even have a clear favorite. But then one way or the other some driver comes along that takes my interest. Vettel did so a number of years ago, now I'm feeling I'm also turning very heavily towards Verstappen and hopefully Vandoorne will get there (I've given up all hope on Frijns) because I can't ignore that he has talent in spades AND is Belgian ;)

For some reason I thought Frijns was Dutch :?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:32 pm 
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Frijns is Dutch, Vandoorne is Belgian, you got confused by the (......) :)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:13 pm 
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Pietkok wrote:
Frijns is Dutch, Vandoorne is Belgian, you got confused by the (......) :)

Oh yes total misread :blush:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:36 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I see rebuilding as joining a team that needs rebuilding which certainly McLaren didn't need doing when Button joined, in fact McLaren declined under Button's watch although I'm not implying that was his fault, but then again your wording seems to be that Button himself is having to rebuild the teams into competitive outfits, is your wording wrong?

I'm defining it more broadly as just being part of a team that's in the process of rebuilding - in essence, years of career lost to being in a team that can't field a competitive car at the moment but ought to. I certainly don't mean to imply that Button is doing the rebuilding himself, as I don't personally believe in the ability of drivers to influence the competitiveness of a team to that extent.

HawaiiF1Fan wrote:
I am quite confused here.

Keep rooting for Fernando and hope he rejoins Renault? ;)



Renault/Lotus probably has been raided over the years with such a small budget. It will take them a while to get back. In all reality, if McHonda doesn't pay off by the middle of next year Fernando will never have a sniff at another WDC. This is sad because with a little twist here or there he might be a 5X or 6X WDC by now.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:40 pm 
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HawaiiF1Fan wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I see rebuilding as joining a team that needs rebuilding which certainly McLaren didn't need doing when Button joined, in fact McLaren declined under Button's watch although I'm not implying that was his fault, but then again your wording seems to be that Button himself is having to rebuild the teams into competitive outfits, is your wording wrong?

I'm defining it more broadly as just being part of a team that's in the process of rebuilding - in essence, years of career lost to being in a team that can't field a competitive car at the moment but ought to. I certainly don't mean to imply that Button is doing the rebuilding himself, as I don't personally believe in the ability of drivers to influence the competitiveness of a team to that extent.

HawaiiF1Fan wrote:
I am quite confused here.

Keep rooting for Fernando and hope he rejoins Renault? ;)



Renault/Lotus probably has been raided over the years with such a small budget. It will take them a while to get back. In all reality, if McHonda doesn't pay off by the middle of next year Fernando will never have a sniff at another WDC. This is sad because with a little twist here or there he might be a 5X or 6X WDC by now.

You have to say though that some of that was self inflicted

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:51 pm 
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F1Krof wrote:
What if Renault makes a good leap with its unused tokens and the next years tokens to bring them right to the front? Can we assume that RBR & TR rushed their decisions? That would be a bummer for them.


It is "Convenient" to get Red Bull aka Neue and the boys off the track before Renault's return ,, those Bad engines struck at the Perfect time...

and yes it is great to have such a stellar team back what color will they bring, I hope for blue.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:05 pm 
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itch787 wrote:
F1Krof wrote:
What if Renault makes a good leap with its unused tokens and the next years tokens to bring them right to the front? Can we assume that RBR & TR rushed their decisions? That would be a bummer for them.


It is "Convenient" to get Red Bull aka Neue and the boys off the track before Renault's return ,, those Bad engines struck at the Perfect time...

and yes it is great to have such a stellar team back what color will they bring, I hope for blue.

They'll bring out the real upgraded PU they've been working on since they decided to return as a factory team 6 months ago :twisted:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:53 pm 
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wolfticket wrote:
itch787 wrote:
F1Krof wrote:
What if Renault makes a good leap with its unused tokens and the next years tokens to bring them right to the front? Can we assume that RBR & TR rushed their decisions? That would be a bummer for them.


It is "Convenient" to get Red Bull aka Neue and the boys off the track before Renault's return ,, those Bad engines struck at the Perfect time...

and yes it is great to have such a stellar team back what color will they bring, I hope for blue.

They'll bring out the real upgraded PU they've been working on since they decided to return as a factory team 6 months ago :twisted:



No doubt, but time will tell they do not want to be toooo obvious - I was just reading Max Mosley book exurb in this months Octane Mag regardless of how you feel about the man or his alleged antics his discoveries as FIA investigator make me almost want to buy his book - Almost.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:18 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
HawaiiF1Fan wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I see rebuilding as joining a team that needs rebuilding which certainly McLaren didn't need doing when Button joined, in fact McLaren declined under Button's watch although I'm not implying that was his fault, but then again your wording seems to be that Button himself is having to rebuild the teams into competitive outfits, is your wording wrong?

I'm defining it more broadly as just being part of a team that's in the process of rebuilding - in essence, years of career lost to being in a team that can't field a competitive car at the moment but ought to. I certainly don't mean to imply that Button is doing the rebuilding himself, as I don't personally believe in the ability of drivers to influence the competitiveness of a team to that extent.

HawaiiF1Fan wrote:
I am quite confused here.

Keep rooting for Fernando and hope he rejoins Renault? ;)



Renault/Lotus probably has been raided over the years with such a small budget. It will take them a while to get back. In all reality, if McHonda doesn't pay off by the middle of next year Fernando will never have a sniff at another WDC. This is sad because with a little twist here or there he might be a 5X or 6X WDC by now.

You have to say though that some of that was self inflicted



True.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:21 pm 
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itch787 wrote:
wolfticket wrote:
itch787 wrote:
F1Krof wrote:
What if Renault makes a good leap with its unused tokens and the next years tokens to bring them right to the front? Can we assume that RBR & TR rushed their decisions? That would be a bummer for them.


It is "Convenient" to get Red Bull aka Neue and the boys off the track before Renault's return ,, those Bad engines struck at the Perfect time...

and yes it is great to have such a stellar team back what color will they bring, I hope for blue.

They'll bring out the real upgraded PU they've been working on since they decided to return as a factory team 6 months ago :twisted:



No doubt, but time will tell they do not want to be toooo obvious - I was just reading Max Mosley book exurb in this months Octane Mag regardless of how you feel about the man or his alleged antics his discoveries as FIA investigator make me almost want to buy his book - Almost.


To tell you the truth guys I really don't think the engine (ICE) is the issue with Renault, I think the issue is the ERS system. Unless Renault addresses this issue they will always have the 3rd or 4th best powertrain.

Renault knows how to design and build ICE, so unless they seriously beef up their ERS program it's not looking good for them in the short and long term.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:11 am 
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HawaiiF1Fan wrote:
itch787 wrote:
wolfticket wrote:
itch787 wrote:
F1Krof wrote:
What if Renault makes a good leap with its unused tokens and the next years tokens to bring them right to the front? Can we assume that RBR & TR rushed their decisions? That would be a bummer for them.


It is "Convenient" to get Red Bull aka Neue and the boys off the track before Renault's return ,, those Bad engines struck at the Perfect time...

and yes it is great to have such a stellar team back what color will they bring, I hope for blue.

They'll bring out the real upgraded PU they've been working on since they decided to return as a factory team 6 months ago :twisted:



No doubt, but time will tell they do not want to be toooo obvious - I was just reading Max Mosley book exurb in this months Octane Mag regardless of how you feel about the man or his alleged antics his discoveries as FIA investigator make me almost want to buy his book - Almost.


To tell you the truth guys I really don't think the engine (ICE) is the issue with Renault, I think the issue is the ERS system. Unless Renault addresses this issue they will always have the 3rd or 4th best powertrain.

Renault knows how to design and build ICE, so unless they seriously beef up their ERS program it's not looking good for them in the short and long term.


And still Honda have managed to surpass Renault's ICE from the first effort - making Renault's ICE the worst of the four.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:28 pm 
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We do not know though how much of Renaults problems in the Red Bull were due to the requirements of the car.
Could it be that given a free hand and the freedom to put a lump here or make this part taller, or put 2 more rows in the cooling the Renault engine could be "fixed".

AN had a barny with Head at Williams as he insisted on putting a useless thing like a gear box just where a shaped dent should go.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:43 pm 
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moby wrote:
We do not know though how much of Renaults problems in the Red Bull were due to the requirements of the car.
Could it be that given a free hand and the freedom to put a lump here or make this part taller, or put 2 more rows in the cooling the Renault engine could be "fixed".

AN had a barny with Head at Williams as he insisted on putting a useless thing like a gear box just where a shaped dent should go.

Apparently this is a problem Honda have as well, McLaren designed their size zero car and then said to Honda now you need to design an engine that will fit inside the car, smallness being the criteria as opposed to perhaps ultimate power and cooling efficiency?

Ferrari also did the same last year and then realised the importance of the engine when they found out that the compromised engine was not good enough.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:55 pm 
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mds wrote:
HawaiiF1Fan wrote:
itch787 wrote:
wolfticket wrote:
itch787 wrote:

It is "Convenient" to get Red Bull aka Neue and the boys off the track before Renault's return ,, those Bad engines struck at the Perfect time...

and yes it is great to have such a stellar team back what color will they bring, I hope for blue.

They'll bring out the real upgraded PU they've been working on since they decided to return as a factory team 6 months ago :twisted:



No doubt, but time will tell they do not want to be toooo obvious - I was just reading Max Mosley book exurb in this months Octane Mag regardless of how you feel about the man or his alleged antics his discoveries as FIA investigator make me almost want to buy his book - Almost.


To tell you the truth guys I really don't think the engine (ICE) is the issue with Renault, I think the issue is the ERS system. Unless Renault addresses this issue they will always have the 3rd or 4th best powertrain.

Renault knows how to design and build ICE, so unless they seriously beef up their ERS program it's not looking good for them in the short and long term.


And still Honda have managed to surpass Renault's ICE from the first effort - making Renault's ICE the worst of the four.


I'm not so sure how "bad" the Renault ICE really is. Renault's recent NA engines have been about driveability and fuel efficiency while the Mercedes were supposedly more powerful.

I really think the big difference in all the powertrains are the packaging and ERS systems. Mercedes have obviously done the best job and Ferrari are getting pretty close.

Renault since 2005 have won 6 WCC championships, Mercedes have won 3 WCC and Ferrari 1 WCC. Renault is not going to forget how to build a good ICE overnight. However from day 1 they have always struggled with the ERS systems. Keep in mind that Red Bull were the driving force behind their ERS systems, not Renault.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:14 am 
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HawaiiF1Fan wrote:
Renault since 2005 have won 6 WCC championships, Mercedes have won 3 WCC and Ferrari 1 WCC. Renault is not going to forget how to build a good ICE overnight.


I'm not saying it is bad, just that it is the worst of the four. They have a deficit of about 40HP to Merc and Ferrari and 15 to Honda. The ERS makes them lose another 40-60HP.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:16 am 
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moby wrote:
We do not know though how much of Renaults problems in the Red Bull were due to the requirements of the car.
Could it be that given a free hand and the freedom to put a lump here or make this part taller, or put 2 more rows in the cooling the Renault engine could be "fixed".


If that should simply fix it, it would have been done already because it would make RBR more competitive. The Mercedes is a skinny car as well - they managed to put something in there that works and performs well.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:41 pm 
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mds wrote:
HawaiiF1Fan wrote:
Renault since 2005 have won 6 WCC championships, Mercedes have won 3 WCC and Ferrari 1 WCC. Renault is not going to forget how to build a good ICE overnight.


I'm not saying it is bad, just that it is the worst of the four. They have a deficit of about 40HP to Merc and Ferrari and 15 to Honda. The ERS makes them lose another 40-60HP.



I just can't see Renault being that far down on the ICE. It just boggles my mind. Maybe it might be in the cam profiling/gearing that the Renault is struggling but that might have been a choice on how Red Bull wanted the engine to perform?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:03 pm 
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mds wrote:
moby wrote:
We do not know though how much of Renaults problems in the Red Bull were due to the requirements of the car.
Could it be that given a free hand and the freedom to put a lump here or make this part taller, or put 2 more rows in the cooling the Renault engine could be "fixed".


If that should simply fix it, it would have been done already because it would make RBR more competitive. The Mercedes is a skinny car as well - they managed to put something in there that works and performs well.


I have no evidence to indicate it, but I think that has been the bone of contention between them. Red Bull will not consider more cooling, and Renault know
that if they spend tokens improving it, they will need more cooling still. It would come to a "I will not move until you do" situation and there is no way out.

Renault have not given the development shop a few months off either, so when they build the car, they will know where they are going and will compromise in one area to gain in another. They know exactly what they need to do, the thing is can they do it.

If they can not, what are they doing buying a team.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:55 pm 
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There is an interesting article on BBC about the Red Bull & Renault.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/34404641

It mentions that Red Bull funded IImor to come up with a new engine design that came up to be 0.45 sec a lap quicker.
Quote:
"Renault was doing its own parallel development. After being told about Ilmor's progress, Renault said its development engine was worth an extra 0.46secs, and it would pursue that design.
Later, that step forward was downgraded to 0.25secs. Now, Renault is telling Red Bull the new engine that is due to debut at the US Grand Prix next month will gain them 0.15secs. Red Bull is questioning whether that gain is worth the grid penalties using it would incur."

For those thinking Renault are going to smash it next year, think again.
I think they might even be at the back of the grid behind Manor with their Merc engines...

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:14 am 
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moby wrote:
mds wrote:
moby wrote:
We do not know though how much of Renaults problems in the Red Bull were due to the requirements of the car.
Could it be that given a free hand and the freedom to put a lump here or make this part taller, or put 2 more rows in the cooling the Renault engine could be "fixed".


If that should simply fix it, it would have been done already because it would make RBR more competitive. The Mercedes is a skinny car as well - they managed to put something in there that works and performs well.


I have no evidence to indicate it, but I think that has been the bone of contention between them. Red Bull will not consider more cooling, and Renault know
that if they spend tokens improving it, they will need more cooling still. It would come to a "I will not move until you do" situation and there is no way out.

Renault have not given the development shop a few months off either, so when they build the car, they will know where they are going and will compromise in one area to gain in another. They know exactly what they need to do, the thing is can they do it.

If they can not, what are they doing buying a team.



That's a good point. I hadn't considered that cooling might be a reason for getting less output from the engine. Heck even the packaging for the exhaust would affect power output.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:55 am 
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Randine wrote:
There is an interesting article on BBC about the Red Bull & Renault.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/34404641

It mentions that Red Bull funded IImor to come up with a new engine design that came up to be 0.45 sec a lap quicker.
Quote:
"Renault was doing its own parallel development. After being told about Ilmor's progress, Renault said its development engine was worth an extra 0.46secs, and it would pursue that design.
Later, that step forward was downgraded to 0.25secs. Now, Renault is telling Red Bull the new engine that is due to debut at the US Grand Prix next month will gain them 0.15secs. Red Bull is questioning whether that gain is worth the grid penalties using it would incur."

For those thinking Renault are going to smash it next year, think again.
I think they might even be at the back of the grid behind Manor with their Merc engines...


Excellent article, we'll worth the read. Great break down of what has been happening behind the headlines.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:59 am 
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Renault has used 11 of its remaining 12 engine tokens for an engine update that will be made available to Red Bull at the United States Grand Prix. Motorsport.com understands the changes, which leave Renault with just one token remaining, are focused on improving the power and efficiency of the internal combustion engine. The tweaks involve new internals that it hopes will help it close the gap on Mercedes and Ferrari.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/renau ... -of-us-gp/

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:22 am 
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mas wrote:
Renault has used 11 of its remaining 12 engine tokens for an engine update that will be made available to Red Bull at the United States Grand Prix. Motorsport.com understands the changes, which leave Renault with just one token remaining, are focused on improving the power and efficiency of the internal combustion engine. The tweaks involve new internals that it hopes will help it close the gap on Mercedes and Ferrari.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/renau ... -of-us-gp/


But will Red Bull take them?

And if they say no - would TR be given the opportunity?

I think I would take the hit in Austin, and hope the engine works well for the final 3 races.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:32 am 
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Quote:
Motorsport.com understands the changes, which leave Renault with just one token remaining, are focused on improving the power and efficiency of the internal combustion engine.


The ICE? Was their biggest deficit not in the ERS?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:34 am 
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mds wrote:
Quote:
Motorsport.com understands the changes, which leave Renault with just one token remaining, are focused on improving the power and efficiency of the internal combustion engine.


The ICE? Was their biggest deficit not in the ERS?


Good point - I think that's what we were led to believe.

Perhaps they are getting ICE changes in now in order to spend big on ERS for 2016?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:08 am 
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As well s tokens, they are able to make changes relating to reliability, so they should have a wide scope in this. It may well be an almost new engine effect.

Part of me wants it to be as good as the Merc, just to watch Red Bull squirm


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:16 am 
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Herb wrote:
mas wrote:
Renault has used 11 of its remaining 12 engine tokens for an engine update that will be made available to Red Bull at the United States Grand Prix. Motorsport.com understands the changes, which leave Renault with just one token remaining, are focused on improving the power and efficiency of the internal combustion engine. The tweaks involve new internals that it hopes will help it close the gap on Mercedes and Ferrari.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/renau ... -of-us-gp/


But will Red Bull take them?

And if they say no - would TR be given the opportunity?

I think I would take the hit in Austin, and hope the engine works well for the final 3 races.


I wonder if we can read anything into their decision. If they take the upgrade, does that indicate they're more seriously considering staying with Renault for 2016? And conversely, if they don't, does that suggest they're still intending to leave Renault at the end of 2015?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:27 am 
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moby wrote:
As well s tokens, they are able to make changes relating to reliability, so they should have a wide scope in this. It may well be an almost new engine effect.


You're saying it yourself: relating to reliability. They don't just need better reliability, they need a huge boost in performance. Reliability changes to the ERS parts will not help performance.

And the FIA seem to be enforcing it this way as well. Earlier this year Honda brought reliability upgrades but they were forced to use tokens, probably because the FIA thought they were performance enhancing as well.

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