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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:06 am 
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Renault F1 reserve driver Esteban Ocon will make his early debut with Manor F1 for the rest of the season. Time has officially ran out for Rio Haryanto. Rossi to remain as reserve.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ocon- ... on-806279/


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:28 am 
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Placid wrote:
Renault F1 reserve driver Esteban Ocon will make his early debut with Manor F1 for the rest of the season. Time has officially ran out for Rio Haryanto. Rossi to remain as reserve.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ocon- ... on-806279/


You should add that that's just your own speculation; all Manor have said is that they're offering Haryanto a reserve role. No line on Rossi's future in either their official comments or that Motorsport article.

I'm still holding out hope we get Vandoorne parachuted in as a late surprise (I'd love to see Vandoorne vs. Wehrlein for the rest of the season) but all signs point to it being Ocon. Which will be fun to watch considering the potential implications it could have on their respective futures!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:59 am 
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It is confirmed now:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:12 am 
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Shame for Rio,I think he did a good job there, especially considering how much his team mate was bulled up


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:33 am 
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Great news for Ocon. This kid actually beat Max to the F3 Euroseries title a couple of years ago and he's only 1 year older than Max. I think it's the right move for all parties involved.

Unfortunately for Haryanto, he was in a situation in which his script was pre-written. I actually think he performed quite admirably overall. Best of luck to him moving forward.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:00 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Placid wrote:
Renault F1 reserve driver Esteban Ocon will make his early debut with Manor F1 for the rest of the season. Time has officially ran out for Rio Haryanto. Rossi to remain as reserve.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ocon- ... on-806279/


You should add that that's just your own speculation; all Manor have said is that they're offering Haryanto a reserve role. No line on Rossi's future in either their official comments or that Motorsport article.

Yeah given than Manor have announced that they have offered Haryanto the reserve driver role I'd say it's likely that Rossi will cut off ties with Manor soon.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:05 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Great news for Ocon. This kid actually beat Max to the F3 Euroseries title a couple of years ago and he's only 1 year older than Max. I think it's the right move for all parties involved.

Unfortunately for Haryanto, he was in a situation in which his script was pre-written. I actually think he performed quite admirably overall. Best of luck to him moving forward.


Same, and I think it'll be very interesting to see the battle between Wehrlein and Ocon as well. Great to see Manor as the new 'Minardi' these days as well - putting touted youngsters in the seat to prove themselves for a move up the field, rather than blank cheques pootling around to make up the numbers.

Out of all of the 'pay drivers' that have hit the series recently though, Rio was a worthy driver and did a great job against Pascal - Hardly a Bianchi/Chilton scenario. Good luck to him with his next steps.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:10 pm 
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On a slight tangent (and it's probably been said before) - DTM driver who beat much lauded driver in F3, coming in through Mercedes program...

Hopefully Esteban Ocon isn't just the new Di Resta :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:57 pm 
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Sevenfest wrote:
On a slight tangent (and it's probably been said before) - DTM driver who beat much lauded driver in F3, coming in through Mercedes program...

Hopefully Esteban Ocon isn't just the new Di Resta :lol:

Ocon was never really a DTM driver though like di Resta who had a multi-year exile from single seaters.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:51 pm 
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Great news Ocon gets a Manor ride until the end of the season, the Manor seat isn't a bad option for a youngster. Mercedes would have cut Manor a nice engine deal and probably have told them they could have discounted engines for next year as well. Good on Manor and Mercedes for giving this guy a ride, oh and a :thumbup: to Renault for agreeing to this too.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:19 pm 
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Can't wait to see Pascal against Ocon, I think more people will be paying attention to what the Manor boys are doing now so it will be good for the team as well.

Sucks for Haryanto of course but I can't lie, I'm a lot more excited to see this new match up. Ocon for the win!.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:29 pm 
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Good news overall, I'd say! :thumbup: It should be interesting to see how Ocon and Wehrlein stack up against each other. Haryanto didn't do as badly as I thought he would, I'll give him that, but I got the impression he was only really close to Wehrlein in qualifying towards the beginning of the season, not infrequently coming dead last come Sunday. These two ought to put up more of a fight against each other, and since the Manor is capable of fighting some other cars this season, this should be exciting.

I will also be curious to see whether it ends up being Haryanto or Rossi in the reserve driver role going forward; that could say a lot about whether or not Rossi is still seeking an F1 seat, or if he's decided to stick with IndyCar at this point.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:39 pm 
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Interesting to read in an interview with Ocon, “I’ve visited the Manor Technical Centre already, for my seat fit and to meet with the wider team, so we’ll be ready to hit the ground running after the summer break. They’ve done a great job this season and I’m excited that I’ve been tasked with helping them to build on that progress.

Hmm. during the shut down, or this has been a done deal for a while.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:14 am 
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moby wrote:
Interesting to read in an interview with Ocon, “I’ve visited the Manor Technical Centre already, for my seat fit and to meet with the wider team, so we’ll be ready to hit the ground running after the summer break. They’ve done a great job this season and I’m excited that I’ve been tasked with helping them to build on that progress.

Hmm. during the shut down, or this has been a done deal for a while.


Pretty sure the rules for the summer break are that each team has to shut down completely for two consecutive weeks rather than the whole summer break. I just can't remember if all teams take the summer break over the same two weeks or if it is up to the teams themselves to dictate which two weeks it is. If that's the case then perhaps Manor intentionally commenced their summer shutdown a little later because they knew they would have Ocon replacing Haryanto?

Of course, it's equally possible they just did all this a while ago in anticipation of Haryanto's funding not coming through considering that's not exactly a recent development!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:23 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
moby wrote:
Interesting to read in an interview with Ocon, “I’ve visited the Manor Technical Centre already, for my seat fit and to meet with the wider team, so we’ll be ready to hit the ground running after the summer break. They’ve done a great job this season and I’m excited that I’ve been tasked with helping them to build on that progress.

Hmm. during the shut down, or this has been a done deal for a while.


Pretty sure the rules for the summer break are that each team has to shut down completely for two consecutive weeks rather than the whole summer break. I just can't remember if all teams take the summer break over the same two weeks or if it is up to the teams themselves to dictate which two weeks it is. If that's the case then perhaps Manor intentionally commenced their summer shutdown a little later because they knew they would have Ocon replacing Haryanto?

Of course, it's equally possible they just did all this a while ago in anticipation of Haryanto's funding not coming through considering that's not exactly a recent development!


Ah yes. I was not thinking coherently sorry. They have actually posted this week that they are on the break, so that could be from Sunday or Monday on. Would still have to have been a done deal before the weekend though, to do a factory visit and seat fitting.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:32 am 
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Manor announced on Twitter this morning that Rio has accepted the role of reserve driver.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:57 am 
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Rio did not ashamed himself. It think he deserves some 2 years in a midfield team to prove himself.

But with Ocon now aboard with Wherlein, Manor seems to be more interesting team to watch, tough.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:19 pm 
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This situation make me thinking; F1 needs 3-4 more teams for the incoming young drivers. Some seemingly very good drivers, like Gary Paffet and similar never had a chance to race in F1. Decades ago, there were teams like Minardi and alike, where young drivers could prove themselves, like Alonso did in aforementioned Minardi.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:33 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Sevenfest wrote:
On a slight tangent (and it's probably been said before) - DTM driver who beat much lauded driver in F3, coming in through Mercedes program...

Hopefully Esteban Ocon isn't just the new Di Resta :lol:

Ocon was never really a DTM driver though like di Resta who had a multi-year exile from single seaters.

Maybe not but it wasn't meant to be taken seriously anyway...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:27 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Placid wrote:
Renault F1 reserve driver Esteban Ocon will make his early debut with Manor F1 for the rest of the season. Time has officially ran out for Rio Haryanto. Rossi to remain as reserve.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ocon- ... on-806279/


You should add that that's just your own speculation; all Manor have said is that they're offering Haryanto a reserve role. No line on Rossi's future in either their official comments or that Motorsport article.

Yeah given than Manor have announced that they have offered Haryanto the reserve driver role I'd say it's likely that Rossi will cut off ties with Manor soon.


It will also depends whether Rossi will get in touch with Manor once again. Rossi is weighing his options whether it's Indy Car or Formula 1.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:11 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
This situation make me thinking; F1 needs 3-4 more teams for the incoming young drivers. Some seemingly very good drivers, like Gary Paffet and similar never had a chance to race in F1. Decades ago, there were teams like Minardi and alike, where young drivers could prove themselves, like Alonso did in aforementioned Minardi.


There's more than enough teams for young drivers in F1. Toro Rosso alone have given drives to Vettel, Buemi, Algesuari, Vergne, Ricciardo, Kvyat, Verstappen and Sainz. Williams in the last decade have launched the careers of Rosberg, Hülkenberg, Maldonado and Bottas (and gave Button his debut all those years ago), Sauber over the years have debuted Raikkonen, Massa, Kubica, Vettel, Kobayashi and Perez. The problem in F1 is that the teams at the bottom end of the grid don't seem to receive enough revenue to allow them to hire drivers on their own merits, which is why we have had the likes of Gutierrez, Ericsson and Nasr race for them in recent seasons.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:24 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
Rio did not ashamed himself. It think he deserves some 2 years in a midfield team to prove himself.

But with Ocon now aboard with Wherlein, Manor seems to be more interesting team to watch, tough.

So the reward for being beaten by your teammate is to move up the grid to a better team? :?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:28 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
This situation make me thinking; F1 needs 3-4 more teams for the incoming young drivers. Some seemingly very good drivers, like Gary Paffet and similar never had a chance to race in F1. Decades ago, there were teams like Minardi and alike, where young drivers could prove themselves, like Alonso did in aforementioned Minardi.


There's more than enough teams for young drivers in F1. Toro Rosso alone have given drives to Vettel, Buemi, Algesuari, Vergne, Ricciardo, Kvyat, Verstappen and Sainz. Williams in the last decade have launched the careers of Rosberg, Hülkenberg, Maldonado and Bottas (and gave Button his debut all those years ago), Sauber over the years have debuted Raikkonen, Massa, Kubica, Vettel, Kobayashi and Perez. The problem in F1 is that the teams at the bottom end of the grid don't seem to receive enough revenue to allow them to hire drivers on their own merits, which is why we have had the likes of Gutierrez, Ericsson and Nasr race for them in recent seasons.

This is true and maybe the next Concorde agreement in 2020 will make the share out of money fairer for all teams?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:32 am 
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if my memory serves me right, Haryanto has to submit $ 8.5 million to Manor to secure his seat until end of the season.

with this news, can we assume that Ocon submitted (or brought) that money to Manor?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:19 am 
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2fast wrote:
if my memory serves me right, Haryanto has to submit $ 8.5 million to Manor to secure his seat until end of the season.

with this news, can we assume that Ocon submitted (or brought) that money to Manor?


Not necessarily. I'm sure Mercedes are providing some sort of a financial benefit, be it a reduction on engine costs for 2017, a promise to keep one of Ocon/Wehrlein there next year, or even just paying them a couple of million for the rest of the season. But it isn't like Manor were going to get that money from Haryanto anyway - whether it was the $8.5m you've referred to or another amount - so I don't see why Mercedes would have to cover that full amount.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:13 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Rio did not ashamed himself. It think he deserves some 2 years in a midfield team to prove himself.

But with Ocon now aboard with Wherlein, Manor seems to be more interesting team to watch, tough.

So the reward for being beaten by your teammate is to move up the grid to a better team? :?

I don't really think that Manor gives a chance to see the true ability of a driver. As I said, Rio did not ashamed himself, tough being beaten. Nigel Mansell got beaten for 4 years in succession by Elio de Angelis, and then become a legend. I am not saying Rio is on his way of becoming a legend, but, I would give him a try in a better car.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:05 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
This situation make me thinking; F1 needs 3-4 more teams for the incoming young drivers. Some seemingly very good drivers, like Gary Paffet and similar never had a chance to race in F1. Decades ago, there were teams like Minardi and alike, where young drivers could prove themselves, like Alonso did in aforementioned Minardi.


There's more than enough teams for young drivers in F1. Toro Rosso alone have given drives to Vettel, Buemi, Algesuari, Vergne, Ricciardo, Kvyat, Verstappen and Sainz. Williams in the last decade have launched the careers of Rosberg, Hülkenberg, Maldonado and Bottas (and gave Button his debut all those years ago), Sauber over the years have debuted Raikkonen, Massa, Kubica, Vettel, Kobayashi and Perez. The problem in F1 is that the teams at the bottom end of the grid don't seem to receive enough revenue to allow them to hire drivers on their own merits, which is why we have had the likes of Gutierrez, Ericsson and Nasr race for them in recent seasons.

This is true and maybe the next Concorde agreement in 2020 will make the share out of money fairer for all teams?

I'd be surprised if it was a major evolution tbh.

Smaller teams will always need extra funding. They still need to ensure that they have revenue streams other than prize money and they can't expect to have everything paid for just for participating. Ferrari gets more prize money than anyone yet they still have sponsors. This idea that with fairer prize money distribution everything will be Nirvana is wishful thinking IMO.

Personal sponsorship won't go away, no matter what they do with the prize money.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:13 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
This situation make me thinking; F1 needs 3-4 more teams for the incoming young drivers. Some seemingly very good drivers, like Gary Paffet and similar never had a chance to race in F1. Decades ago, there were teams like Minardi and alike, where young drivers could prove themselves, like Alonso did in aforementioned Minardi.


There's more than enough teams for young drivers in F1. Toro Rosso alone have given drives to Vettel, Buemi, Algesuari, Vergne, Ricciardo, Kvyat, Verstappen and Sainz. Williams in the last decade have launched the careers of Rosberg, Hülkenberg, Maldonado and Bottas (and gave Button his debut all those years ago), Sauber over the years have debuted Raikkonen, Massa, Kubica, Vettel, Kobayashi and Perez. The problem in F1 is that the teams at the bottom end of the grid don't seem to receive enough revenue to allow them to hire drivers on their own merits, which is why we have had the likes of Gutierrez, Ericsson and Nasr race for them in recent seasons.

This is true and maybe the next Concorde agreement in 2020 will make the share out of money fairer for all teams?

I'd be surprised if it was a major evolution tbh.

Smaller teams will always need extra funding. They still need to ensure that they have revenue streams other than prize money and they can't expect to have everything paid for just for participating. Ferrari gets more prize money than anyone yet they still have sponsors. This idea that with fairer prize money distribution everything will be Nirvana is wishful thinking IMO.

Personal sponsorship won't go away, no matter what they do with the prize money.


Agreed. But I do think it's wrong that it's impossible for Williams to earn more than Ferrari even if they won the WCC championship and Ferrari finished last. A fairer distribution would at least mean teams might not have to spend most of their energy just surviving.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:18 pm 
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I accept that there will always be pay drivers, my point is that at the moment Sauber in particular have a financial position that's so precarious that they can't afford to hire a driver on talent alone. And I'm picking Sauber as a pertinent example because they've always been a team that's been prepared to take risks with talented younger drivers. By my count 6 of the current grid drove their first race in the sport for Sauber (Raikkonen, Massa, Vettel, Perez, Gutierrez, Nasr.) And if F1 isn't careful, then a team like Williams, another with a track record of promoting young talent, could follow suit. Almost half of the current grid were given a debut by Williams or Sauber, if you restrict their ability to hire purely on talent then you run the risk of the grid stagnating and seeing the top driving talent drive in other series.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:06 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
This situation make me thinking; F1 needs 3-4 more teams for the incoming young drivers. Some seemingly very good drivers, like Gary Paffet and similar never had a chance to race in F1. Decades ago, there were teams like Minardi and alike, where young drivers could prove themselves, like Alonso did in aforementioned Minardi.


There's more than enough teams for young drivers in F1. Toro Rosso alone have given drives to Vettel, Buemi, Algesuari, Vergne, Ricciardo, Kvyat, Verstappen and Sainz. Williams in the last decade have launched the careers of Rosberg, Hülkenberg, Maldonado and Bottas (and gave Button his debut all those years ago), Sauber over the years have debuted Raikkonen, Massa, Kubica, Vettel, Kobayashi and Perez. The problem in F1 is that the teams at the bottom end of the grid don't seem to receive enough revenue to allow them to hire drivers on their own merits, which is why we have had the likes of Gutierrez, Ericsson and Nasr race for them in recent seasons.

This is true and maybe the next Concorde agreement in 2020 will make the share out of money fairer for all teams?

I'd be surprised if it was a major evolution tbh.

Smaller teams will always need extra funding. They still need to ensure that they have revenue streams other than prize money and they can't expect to have everything paid for just for participating. Ferrari gets more prize money than anyone yet they still have sponsors. This idea that with fairer prize money distribution everything will be Nirvana is wishful thinking IMO.

Personal sponsorship won't go away, no matter what they do with the prize money.


Agreed. But I do think it's wrong that it's impossible for Williams to earn more than Ferrari even if they won the WCC championship and Ferrari finished last. A fairer distribution would at least mean teams might not have to spend most of their energy just surviving.

Oh I don't disagree with that. The prize money situation is borderline criminal and pretty much guarantees an unfair playing field. But it will never eliminate pay drivers IMO


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:08 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
I accept that there will always be pay drivers, my point is that at the moment Sauber in particular have a financial position that's so precarious that they can't afford to hire a driver on talent alone. And I'm picking Sauber as a pertinent example because they've always been a team that's been prepared to take risks with talented younger drivers. By my count 6 of the current grid drove their first race in the sport for Sauber (Raikkonen, Massa, Vettel, Perez, Gutierrez, Nasr.) And if F1 isn't careful, then a team like Williams, another with a track record of promoting young talent, could follow suit. Almost half of the current grid were given a debut by Williams or Sauber, if you restrict their ability to hire purely on talent then you run the risk of the grid stagnating and seeing the top driving talent drive in other series.

Yes that's fair enough. It's getting more and more expensive just to compete in the sport these days, let alone be competitive.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:32 pm 
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Poor Haryanto. Another victim of F1 money hunger


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:34 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
Poor Haryanto. Another victim of F1 money hunger


A profiteer from it surely?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:37 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
Poor Haryanto. Another victim of F1 money hunger


A profiteer from it surely?

Well, like any other pay driver that is not an incredible talent but only a decent or average driver.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:16 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Rio did not ashamed himself. It think he deserves some 2 years in a midfield team to prove himself.

But with Ocon now aboard with Wherlein, Manor seems to be more interesting team to watch, tough.

So the reward for being beaten by your teammate is to move up the grid to a better team? :?

I don't really think that Manor gives a chance to see the true ability of a driver. As I said, Rio did not ashamed himself, tough being beaten. Nigel Mansell got beaten for 4 years in succession by Elio de Angelis, and then become a legend. I am not saying Rio is on his way of becoming a legend, but, I would give him a try in a better car.

Based on talent alone i don't think that Haryanto deserved a drive in F1 in the first place but that's not to say that he was out of his depth.

Mansell got another chance because Williams believed in him and let's not forget that Mansell had podiums, lead a race etc.

What team is going to employ Haryanto based solely on talent?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:51 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Rio did not ashamed himself. It think he deserves some 2 years in a midfield team to prove himself.

But with Ocon now aboard with Wherlein, Manor seems to be more interesting team to watch, tough.

So the reward for being beaten by your teammate is to move up the grid to a better team? :?

I don't really think that Manor gives a chance to see the true ability of a driver. As I said, Rio did not ashamed himself, tough being beaten. Nigel Mansell got beaten for 4 years in succession by Elio de Angelis, and then become a legend. I am not saying Rio is on his way of becoming a legend, but, I would give him a try in a better car.

Based on talent alone i don't think that Haryanto deserved a drive in F1 in the first place but that's not to say that he was out of his depth.

Mansell got another chance because Williams believed in him and let's not forget that Mansell had podiums, lead a race etc.

What team is going to employ Haryanto based solely on talent?



Being in possession of a wad of cash is a much required talent in F1


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:58 am 
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moby wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Rio did not ashamed himself. It think he deserves some 2 years in a midfield team to prove himself.

But with Ocon now aboard with Wherlein, Manor seems to be more interesting team to watch, tough.

So the reward for being beaten by your teammate is to move up the grid to a better team? :?

I don't really think that Manor gives a chance to see the true ability of a driver. As I said, Rio did not ashamed himself, tough being beaten. Nigel Mansell got beaten for 4 years in succession by Elio de Angelis, and then become a legend. I am not saying Rio is on his way of becoming a legend, but, I would give him a try in a better car.

Based on talent alone i don't think that Haryanto deserved a drive in F1 in the first place but that's not to say that he was out of his depth.

Mansell got another chance because Williams believed in him and let's not forget that Mansell had podiums, lead a race etc.

What team is going to employ Haryanto based solely on talent?



Being in possession of a wad of cash is a much required talent in F1

Unfortunately that particular talent ran out for Haryanto.

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