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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:44 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Exediron wrote:
F1Oz wrote:
Surely Bottas would prefer to have a seat at Mercedes (even if for one year) and has that year to prove he should get an extension.

But Mercedes will also want top drivers if they can get them - and with the best car - they hold the cards.

Mercedes already has a top driver, one who is believed to be interested in a new contract after 2018. They've shown previously that they're not interested in putting another top driver alongside Lewis, so why would they mess with what's already working?


Each 'top' driver is a different set of circumstances, though. You can write off a Hamilton/Alonso partnership at Mercedes, and most probably a Hamilton/Vettel one, too. Would Max Verstappen fit alongside Lewis? I don't think so. He's phenomenally talented on the track and has age on his side, but he/his father are developing a nasty habit of throwing their toys out the pram a little, and it does feel (at least to me) that if it were Hamilton vs. Verstappen for the WDC, you've got a lot of potential for it to combust.

Daniel Ricciardo, on the other hand, is potentially available at the end of next year, would be a clear upgrade on Bottas and has co-existed with his teammates to date. Of course, that hasn't been under the pressure of a situation where he and his teammate are in direct competition for the WDC, but of the four 'top' drivers he seems like the one who would cause the least issues alongside Lewis. Certainly, if I were making that decision and Ricciardo was available, I'd have no qualms about pairing those two, and would be a lot more confident in the mood remaining positive than I would with Hamilton alongside Vettel/Alonso/Verstappen.

I broadly agree, except that I'd say the drivers who are most likely to have issues with competitive team mates would be Hamilton and Alonso only. So far I haven't seen Verstappen having notable issues with Ricciardo (well, none that immediately spring to mind), while Vettel seemed to take his beating by Ricciardo fairly equanimously. I know Max and Sainz famously didn't get on, but not entirely sure who was the originator there.

I think both Alonso and Hamilton need to have team mates who don't threaten them, while the others haven't really shown that to be the case (although that said a case could be made for Verstappen because of his relationship with Sainz). So I don't see a partnership between Alonso and Hamilton working, but one of the other three with them might work, although I still think it would be a headache. Mercedes seem far better off sticking with a Hamilton/Bottas scenario, where Bottas is clearly inferior and apparently apolitical, while still being quick enough to steal points off competitors. Kimi fits the first two criteria at Ferrari, for example, but he's not consistently doing the the latter point. The only probable issue with that scenario, of course, is succession planning...

Alonso and Hamilton have gone up against a superior line-up of drivers than the others. Massa and Kimi are the only drivers on the grid to have gone up against an even better line-up of drivers

And at this moment in time Alonso would team up with anybody if it put him in a race winning car

That's only because he has no better option but that doesn't mean that there wouldn't be problems.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:17 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Mercedes already has a top driver, one who is believed to be interested in a new contract after 2018. They've shown previously that they're not interested in putting another top driver alongside Lewis, so why would they mess with what's already working?


Each 'top' driver is a different set of circumstances, though. You can write off a Hamilton/Alonso partnership at Mercedes, and most probably a Hamilton/Vettel one, too. Would Max Verstappen fit alongside Lewis? I don't think so. He's phenomenally talented on the track and has age on his side, but he/his father are developing a nasty habit of throwing their toys out the pram a little, and it does feel (at least to me) that if it were Hamilton vs. Verstappen for the WDC, you've got a lot of potential for it to combust.

Daniel Ricciardo, on the other hand, is potentially available at the end of next year, would be a clear upgrade on Bottas and has co-existed with his teammates to date. Of course, that hasn't been under the pressure of a situation where he and his teammate are in direct competition for the WDC, but of the four 'top' drivers he seems like the one who would cause the least issues alongside Lewis. Certainly, if I were making that decision and Ricciardo was available, I'd have no qualms about pairing those two, and would be a lot more confident in the mood remaining positive than I would with Hamilton alongside Vettel/Alonso/Verstappen.

I broadly agree, except that I'd say the drivers who are most likely to have issues with competitive team mates would be Hamilton and Alonso only. So far I haven't seen Verstappen having notable issues with Ricciardo (well, none that immediately spring to mind), while Vettel seemed to take his beating by Ricciardo fairly equanimously. I know Max and Sainz famously didn't get on, but not entirely sure who was the originator there.

I think both Alonso and Hamilton need to have team mates who don't threaten them, while the others haven't really shown that to be the case (although that said a case could be made for Verstappen because of his relationship with Sainz). So I don't see a partnership between Alonso and Hamilton working, but one of the other three with them might work, although I still think it would be a headache. Mercedes seem far better off sticking with a Hamilton/Bottas scenario, where Bottas is clearly inferior and apparently apolitical, while still being quick enough to steal points off competitors. Kimi fits the first two criteria at Ferrari, for example, but he's not consistently doing the the latter point. The only probable issue with that scenario, of course, is succession planning...

Alonso and Hamilton have gone up against a superior line-up of drivers than the others. Massa and Kimi are the only drivers on the grid to have gone up against an even better line-up of drivers

And at this moment in time Alonso would team up with anybody if it put him in a race winning car

That's only because he has no better option but that doesn't mean that there wouldn't be problems.

I read it incorrectly that they need a teammate that doesn't threaten them in order to succeed, which I wouldn't agree with

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:07 am 
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Does anyone else think it's strange that Bottas hasn't had his contract extended yet?

He's won races this year and has proven to be a reliable number 2. Mercedes are leading the constructor's championship by a margin.

Verstappen isn't available until 2020 (or 2019) at the very earliest. Ricciardo isn't available until 2019. Ferrari have extended both their drivers' contracts.

It seems strange that Mercedes haven't sewn this up.

Is it possible they are indeed negotiating with Alonso... or someone else?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:12 am 
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oz_karter wrote:
Does anyone else think it's strange that Bottas hasn't had his contract extended yet?

He's won races this year and has proven to be a reliable number 2. Mercedes are leading the constructor's championship by a margin.

Verstappen isn't available until 2020 (or 2019) at the very earliest. Ricciardo isn't available until 2019. Ferrari have extended both their drivers' contracts.

It seems strange that Mercedes haven't sewn this up.

Is it possible they are indeed negotiating with Alonso... or someone else?

No it's just about contract length, Mercedes will have offered Bottas a 1 year contract but he wants a longer contract.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:31 pm 
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oz_karter wrote:
Does anyone else think it's strange that Bottas hasn't had his contract extended yet?

He's won races this year and has proven to be a reliable number 2. Mercedes are leading the constructor's championship by a margin.

Verstappen isn't available until 2020 (or 2019) at the very earliest. Ricciardo isn't available until 2019. Ferrari have extended both their drivers' contracts.

It seems strange that Mercedes haven't sewn this up.

Is it possible they are indeed negotiating with Alonso... or someone else?

He's done well enough to get a new deal, I don't think he's done well enough that I would be desperate to tie him down to a multi year deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:00 pm 
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Fernando Alonso has removed all references to the Woking outfit from his social media accounts and website.

https://www.pitpass.com/60066/A-new-twi ... Laren-saga

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:50 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
Fernando Alonso has removed all references to the Woking outfit from his social media accounts and website.

https://www.pitpass.com/60066/A-new-twi ... Laren-saga

Hmm...

:uhoh:

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:15 pm 
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He hasn't, I posted about it last night in the McRenault thread, he's just removed some Honda stuff and stopped following HondaRacing. He still follows Zak,McLaren,EB etc...

It's hilarious how this story spread from the McLaren thread on AS, to some twitter accounts, to a Dutch F1 site and now here and along the way McLaren and 'Woking' were added to the snubbed list.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:08 am 
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Lotus49 wrote:
He hasn't, I posted about it last night in the McRenault thread, he's just removed some Honda stuff and stopped following HondaRacing. He still follows Zak,McLaren,EB etc...

It's hilarious how this story spread from the McLaren thread on AS, to some twitter accounts, to a Dutch F1 site and now here and along the way McLaren and 'Woking' were added to the snubbed list.

Ah, fake news strikes again. Can't get away from it.

So that just means he's done with Honda, which we already knew. I don't think he's going to stay at Macca if Honda does.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:35 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
He hasn't, I posted about it last night in the McRenault thread, he's just removed some Honda stuff and stopped following HondaRacing. He still follows Zak,McLaren,EB etc...

It's hilarious how this story spread from the McLaren thread on AS, to some twitter accounts, to a Dutch F1 site and now here and along the way McLaren and 'Woking' were added to the snubbed list.

Ah, fake news strikes again. Can't get away from it.

So that just means he's done with Honda, which we already knew. I don't think he's going to stay at Macca if Honda does.


Yeah me neither.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
He hasn't, I posted about it last night in the McRenault thread, he's just removed some Honda stuff and stopped following HondaRacing. He still follows Zak,McLaren,EB etc...

It's hilarious how this story spread from the McLaren thread on AS, to some twitter accounts, to a Dutch F1 site and now here and along the way McLaren and 'Woking' were added to the snubbed list.

Ah, fake news strikes again. Can't get away from it.

So that just means he's done with Honda, which we already knew. I don't think he's going to stay at Macca if Honda does.


Yeah me neither.

Could it mean that the chances of him getting and Indycar drive with Honda engine just got down to 0%?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:16 pm 
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As per this article, Renault has signed Sainz:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sainz-renault-switch-str-mclaren-honda-951146/

Excerpts from the article:
'Although the provisional deal is for 2018, sources have suggested that Sainz could join Renault as early as this year’s Malaysian Grand Prix if the outfit elects not to continue with Jolyon Palmer.'

'Sainz’s Renault deal has cleared the way for Toro Rosso to complete its switch to Honda engines, with the Faenza-based team also taking a supply of McLaren gearboxes for the Japanese power unit.'

Good for him. Bad for Kubica.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:25 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
As per this article, Renault has signed Sainz:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sainz-renault-switch-str-mclaren-honda-951146/

Excerpts from the article:
'Although the provisional deal is for 2018, sources have suggested that Sainz could join Renault as early as this year’s Malaysian Grand Prix if the outfit elects not to continue with Jolyon Palmer.'

'Sainz’s Renault deal has cleared the way for Toro Rosso to complete its switch to Honda engines, with the Faenza-based team also taking a supply of McLaren gearboxes for the Japanese power unit.'

Good for him. Bad for Kubica.


I do not trust that site, they invent a lot of stuff.
Not saying it is not right, but want to see it elsewhere first.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:34 pm 
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moby wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
As per this article, Renault has signed Sainz:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sainz-renault-switch-str-mclaren-honda-951146/

Excerpts from the article:
'Although the provisional deal is for 2018, sources have suggested that Sainz could join Renault as early as this year’s Malaysian Grand Prix if the outfit elects not to continue with Jolyon Palmer.'

'Sainz’s Renault deal has cleared the way for Toro Rosso to complete its switch to Honda engines, with the Faenza-based team also taking a supply of McLaren gearboxes for the Japanese power unit.'

Good for him. Bad for Kubica.


I do not trust that site, they invent a lot of stuff.
Not saying it is not right, but want to see it elsewhere first.


Autosport also claiming this:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/131722/sainz-renault-deal-sets-up-mclaren-changes

Excerpts from the article:
'With the Sainz deal arranged, that has opened the way for Toro Rosso to finalise a switch to Honda engines for next year, which in turn ensures McLaren will get hold of a supply of customer Renault power units for 2018.'

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:41 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
moby wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
As per this article, Renault has signed Sainz:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sainz-renault-switch-str-mclaren-honda-951146/

Excerpts from the article:
'Although the provisional deal is for 2018, sources have suggested that Sainz could join Renault as early as this year’s Malaysian Grand Prix if the outfit elects not to continue with Jolyon Palmer.'

'Sainz’s Renault deal has cleared the way for Toro Rosso to complete its switch to Honda engines, with the Faenza-based team also taking a supply of McLaren gearboxes for the Japanese power unit.'

Good for him. Bad for Kubica.


I do not trust that site, they invent a lot of stuff.
Not saying it is not right, but want to see it elsewhere first.


Autosport also claiming this:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/131722/sainz-renault-deal-sets-up-mclaren-changes

Autosport, Motorsport all are under same management, so same news copy/paste.
BTW, both the sites are one of the most reliable in terms of rumors, don't know why there is a distrust


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:50 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Good for him. Bad for Kubica.

:-((

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:47 pm 
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robins13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
moby wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
As per this article, Renault has signed Sainz:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sainz-renault-switch-str-mclaren-honda-951146/

Excerpts from the article:
'Although the provisional deal is for 2018, sources have suggested that Sainz could join Renault as early as this year’s Malaysian Grand Prix if the outfit elects not to continue with Jolyon Palmer.'

'Sainz’s Renault deal has cleared the way for Toro Rosso to complete its switch to Honda engines, with the Faenza-based team also taking a supply of McLaren gearboxes for the Japanese power unit.'

Good for him. Bad for Kubica.


I do not trust that site, they invent a lot of stuff.
Not saying it is not right, but want to see it elsewhere first.


Autosport also claiming this:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/131722/sainz-renault-deal-sets-up-mclaren-changes

Autosport, Motorsport all are under same management, so same news copy/paste.
BTW, both the sites are one of the most reliable in terms of rumors, don't know why there is a distrust



I am going to hold my breath for a while :blush: Probably right, but details look too soft. Nothing from Honda, Mclaren or STR.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:51 pm 
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moby wrote:
robins13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
moby wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
As per this article, Renault has signed Sainz:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sainz-renault-switch-str-mclaren-honda-951146/

Excerpts from the article:
'Although the provisional deal is for 2018, sources have suggested that Sainz could join Renault as early as this year’s Malaysian Grand Prix if the outfit elects not to continue with Jolyon Palmer.'

'Sainz’s Renault deal has cleared the way for Toro Rosso to complete its switch to Honda engines, with the Faenza-based team also taking a supply of McLaren gearboxes for the Japanese power unit.'

Good for him. Bad for Kubica.


I do not trust that site, they invent a lot of stuff.
Not saying it is not right, but want to see it elsewhere first.


Autosport also claiming this:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/131722/sainz-renault-deal-sets-up-mclaren-changes

Autosport, Motorsport all are under same management, so same news copy/paste.
BTW, both the sites are one of the most reliable in terms of rumors, don't know why there is a distrust



I am going to hold my breath for a while :blush: Probably right, but details look too soft. Nothing from Honda, Mclaren or STR.


Typically, reports come in first before the official announcements.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:42 pm 
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It has been rumoured for long enough, and the Motorsport/Autosport family is reputable enough, for me to accept that this is indeed going to happen. It makes too much sense for everyone involved not to happen, anyway. McLaren get what should be a better, more reliable engine, and one that'll enable them to keep Alonso. Honda keep themselves in F1 whilst being able to work in a situation that shouldn't be as pressured as McLaren is. Sainz gets a move to a factory team. The Toro Rosso team is probably the only vague loser here, in that they'll have a worse engine and a weaker driver line-up, but ultimately they're a sacrifice worth taking for Red Bull should it lead to them becoming Honda's customer team if Honda ever provide a strong engine.

Now I'm just curious as to what aspect of it will be officially announced first. I'd guess McLaren will make the first step by announcing they're switching to Renault and the rest will follow?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:06 pm 
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If Sainz moves to Renault, what are the options for STR regarding replacement? From RB's juniors surely only Gasly can be a candidate. Can they lure Leclerc or Norris away from Ferrari and McLaren respectively? Don't really see many other prospects currently?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:25 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
If Sainz moves to Renault, what are the options for STR regarding replacement? From RB's juniors surely only Gasly can be a candidate. Can they lure Leclerc or Norris away from Ferrari and McLaren respectively? Don't really see many other prospects currently?



If they are taking Honda, it may come with a driver.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:44 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
He hasn't, I posted about it last night in the McRenault thread, he's just removed some Honda stuff and stopped following HondaRacing. He still follows Zak,McLaren,EB etc...

It's hilarious how this story spread from the McLaren thread on AS, to some twitter accounts, to a Dutch F1 site and now here and along the way McLaren and 'Woking' were added to the snubbed list.

Ah, fake news strikes again. Can't get away from it.

So that just means he's done with Honda, which we already knew. I don't think he's going to stay at Macca if Honda does.


Yeah me neither.

Could it mean that the chances of him getting and Indycar drive with Honda engine just got down to 0%?


It could I guess if enough noses are put out of joint but they are different companies technically with HPD being an American Honda subsidiary which do IndyCar and the one Alonso has "fell out" with is Honda R&D (HRD) of Honda Worldwide.

He seemed to get on well with HPD figures and took the failure of his engine in the 500 in pretty good spirits because it was such a competitive engine and it was a known risk he was happy to take. It's also worth noting he didn't stop following McLaren-Andretti-Honda.

I'd say no and that he could work with Honda over there because of the good relationship with Andretti but you never know.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:49 pm 
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moby wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
If Sainz moves to Renault, what are the options for STR regarding replacement? From RB's juniors surely only Gasly can be a candidate. Can they lure Leclerc or Norris away from Ferrari and McLaren respectively? Don't really see many other prospects currently?



If they are taking Honda, it may come with a driver.


If Nobby can get the SL points I think it's a certainty he'll be in STR-Honda. I read he might struggle to get it though but I don't follow F2 ardently enough to know how likely it is. I read he'd have to outscore Ghiotto(sp) by 35-40 points between now and the end of the season to qualify I think.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:05 am 
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The 2018 season is looking like a wrap then

Mercedes
Hamilton
Bottas

Ferrari
Vettel
Raikkonen

Red Bull
Verstappen
Ricciardo

McLaren
Alonso
Vandoorne

Renault
Hulkenberg
Sainz

Force India
Perez
Ocon

STR
Gasly
Kvyat

Haas
Grosjean
Magnussen

Williams
Massa
Stroll

Sauber
Leclerc
Ericsson

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:53 am 
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pokerman wrote:
The 2018 season is looking like a wrap then

Mercedes
Hamilton
Bottas

Ferrari
Vettel
Raikkonen

Red Bull
Verstappen
Ricciardo

McLaren
Alonso
Vandoorne

Renault
Hulkenberg
Sainz

Force India
Perez
Ocon

STR
Gasly
Kvyat

Haas
Grosjean
Magnussen

Williams
Massa
Stroll

Sauber
Leclerc
Ericsson


I would say that Massa's Williams seat is gettable. From what I've heard Ericsson is not as sure at Sauber as one may think either.

If both of them stay it has to be the most stable grid ever.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:23 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
The 2018 season is looking like a wrap then

Mercedes
Hamilton
Bottas

Ferrari
Vettel
Raikkonen

Red Bull
Verstappen
Ricciardo

McLaren
Alonso
Vandoorne

Renault
Hulkenberg
Sainz

Force India
Perez
Ocon

STR
Gasly
Kvyat

Haas
Grosjean
Magnussen

Williams
Massa
Stroll

Sauber
Leclerc
Ericsson


I would say that Massa's Williams seat is gettable. From what I've heard Ericsson is not as sure at Sauber as one may think either.

If both of them stay it has to be the most stable grid ever.

If Massa stays on for another year then that pretty much confirms that his 'retirement' last year was a result of being pushed out to make way for Stroll. If he does retire for real this time then perhaps there's a option for Kubica after all...


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:04 pm 
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Or Wehrlein...


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:01 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
The 2018 season is looking like a wrap then

Mercedes
Hamilton
Bottas

Ferrari
Vettel
Raikkonen

Red Bull
Verstappen
Ricciardo

McLaren
Alonso
Vandoorne

Renault
Hulkenberg
Sainz

Force India
Perez
Ocon

STR
Gasly
Kvyat

Haas
Grosjean
Magnussen

Williams
Massa
Stroll

Sauber
Leclerc
Ericsson


Not sure about Massa staying at Williams for 2018 a lot might depend on how Williams finish up in the Constructors Championship?

Maybe they might stay with the Brazilian theme and go with Nasr or a Mercedes backed driver?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:15 pm 
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Llotyhy wrote:
Or Wehrlein...


You forgot the stipulations regarding age with Martini?

Wehrlein & Stroll together not possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:16 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
The 2018 season is looking like a wrap then

Mercedes
Hamilton
Bottas

Ferrari
Vettel
Raikkonen

Red Bull
Verstappen
Ricciardo

McLaren
Alonso
Vandoorne

Renault
Hulkenberg
Sainz

Force India
Perez
Ocon

STR
Gasly
Kvyat

Haas
Grosjean
Magnussen

Williams
Massa
Stroll

Sauber
Leclerc
Ericsson


Sainz's gain is the last nail in Perez's coffin as far as getting a drive with a manufacturer team is concerned.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:38 am 
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Posts: 2639
Lotus49 wrote:
moby wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
If Sainz moves to Renault, what are the options for STR regarding replacement? From RB's juniors surely only Gasly can be a candidate. Can they lure Leclerc or Norris away from Ferrari and McLaren respectively? Don't really see many other prospects currently?



If they are taking Honda, it may come with a driver.


If Nobby can get the SL points I think it's a certainty he'll be in STR-Honda. I read he might struggle to get it though but I don't follow F2 ardently enough to know how likely it is. I read he'd have to outscore Ghiotto(sp) by 35-40 points between now and the end of the season to qualify I think.


He has to finish 3rd or higher in the standings to secure enough Superlicense points. With two rounds (so four races) of the F2 season left, he's 6th overall and some 37 points behind Artem Markelov, the man in 3rd. There are 96 points available so it is mathematically still possible, but quite frankly his performances haven't suggested he's likely to do so. Not only does he have to worry about the five drivers ahead of him in the standings, but both Nyck de Vries (who has recently switched teams) and Antonio Fuoco (who seems to finally be getting a little more comfortable after stepping up from GP3 alongside Leclerc) are going to chasing him down. And anyway, he's done nothing to suggest he should be in F1 over any of a number of other drivers (Giovinazzi, Gasly, Rowland, Markelov, Sirotkin and Lynn have all made stronger cases in the time Matsushita has been in GP2/F2) so if he takes that seat rather than Gasly, it's a bit of a joke really.

Here's a thought, though: what if all these negotiations to keep Honda in F1 have included Honda requesting Matsushita be allowed to race for Toro Rosso next year? Pure speculation on my part, but considering Ross Brawn was involved in the recent round of talks and Honda are taking a pretty bad hit if McLaren do indeed drop them, maybe that's something they pushed for? (Although to debate my own point, it's not like Ross Brawn has the power to override the FIA's Superlicense rules, so even if such a proposal was mooted by Honda and agreed upon by Brawn, there would be no guarantee the FIA themselves sign off on it. And they must surely know that if they did waive that rule, it basically makes a complete mockery of the system. But it is fun to speculate...)

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:23 am 
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I just read on the latest blog of a certain journalist (who shall remain nameless, but I think it's obvious who I mean) that Jolyon Palmer is a strong candidate for a seat at Williams for 2018, this journalist also seems to rate Palmer and says he has just been unlucky. As a longtime fan of Williams I really hope this is not true.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:26 am 
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owenmahamilton wrote:
I just read on the latest blog of a certain journalist (who shall remain nameless, but I think it's obvious who I mean) that Jolyon Palmer is a strong candidate for a seat at Williams for 2018, this journalist also seems to rate Palmer and says he has just been unlucky. As a longtime fan of Williams I really hope this is not true.


I read elsewhere that Kubica & Alonso are candidates for Williams.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:33 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
moby wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
If Sainz moves to Renault, what are the options for STR regarding replacement? From RB's juniors surely only Gasly can be a candidate. Can they lure Leclerc or Norris away from Ferrari and McLaren respectively? Don't really see many other prospects currently?



If they are taking Honda, it may come with a driver.


If Nobby can get the SL points I think it's a certainty he'll be in STR-Honda. I read he might struggle to get it though but I don't follow F2 ardently enough to know how likely it is. I read he'd have to outscore Ghiotto(sp) by 35-40 points between now and the end of the season to qualify I think.


He has to finish 3rd or higher in the standings to secure enough Superlicense points. With two rounds (so four races) of the F2 season left, he's 6th overall and some 37 points behind Artem Markelov, the man in 3rd. There are 96 points available so it is mathematically still possible, but quite frankly his performances haven't suggested he's likely to do so. Not only does he have to worry about the five drivers ahead of him in the standings, but both Nyck de Vries (who has recently switched teams) and Antonio Fuoco (who seems to finally be getting a little more comfortable after stepping up from GP3 alongside Leclerc) are going to chasing him down. And anyway, he's done nothing to suggest he should be in F1 over any of a number of other drivers (Giovinazzi, Gasly, Rowland, Markelov, Sirotkin and Lynn have all made stronger cases in the time Matsushita has been in GP2/F2) so if he takes that seat rather than Gasly, it's a bit of a joke really.

Here's a thought, though: what if all these negotiations to keep Honda in F1 have included Honda requesting Matsushita be allowed to race for Toro Rosso next year? Pure speculation on my part, but considering Ross Brawn was involved in the recent round of talks and Honda are taking a pretty bad hit if McLaren do indeed drop them, maybe that's something they pushed for? (Although to debate my own point, it's not like Ross Brawn has the power to override the FIA's Superlicense rules, so even if such a proposal was mooted by Honda and agreed upon by Brawn, there would be no guarantee the FIA themselves sign off on it. And they must surely know that if they did waive that rule, it basically makes a complete mockery of the system. But it is fun to speculate...)

If Matshutita gets the STR seat then the FIA might has well throw their new F1 super license points system into the bin.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 15th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:36 am 
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owenmahamilton wrote:
I just read on the latest blog of a certain journalist (who shall remain nameless, but I think it's obvious who I mean) that Jolyon Palmer is a strong candidate for a seat at Williams for 2018, this journalist also seems to rate Palmer and says he has just been unlucky. As a longtime fan of Williams I really hope this is not true.

That would probably mean that Williams will have 2 pay drivers driving for them, they have done this in the recent past with Maldonado and Senna.

I guess they see the money they can get in from the drivers will more than offset the loss in Constructors money if that happens?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 15th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:39 am 
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Posts: 2639
pokerman wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
moby wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
If Sainz moves to Renault, what are the options for STR regarding replacement? From RB's juniors surely only Gasly can be a candidate. Can they lure Leclerc or Norris away from Ferrari and McLaren respectively? Don't really see many other prospects currently?



If they are taking Honda, it may come with a driver.


If Nobby can get the SL points I think it's a certainty he'll be in STR-Honda. I read he might struggle to get it though but I don't follow F2 ardently enough to know how likely it is. I read he'd have to outscore Ghiotto(sp) by 35-40 points between now and the end of the season to qualify I think.


He has to finish 3rd or higher in the standings to secure enough Superlicense points. With two rounds (so four races) of the F2 season left, he's 6th overall and some 37 points behind Artem Markelov, the man in 3rd. There are 96 points available so it is mathematically still possible, but quite frankly his performances haven't suggested he's likely to do so. Not only does he have to worry about the five drivers ahead of him in the standings, but both Nyck de Vries (who has recently switched teams) and Antonio Fuoco (who seems to finally be getting a little more comfortable after stepping up from GP3 alongside Leclerc) are going to chasing him down. And anyway, he's done nothing to suggest he should be in F1 over any of a number of other drivers (Giovinazzi, Gasly, Rowland, Markelov, Sirotkin and Lynn have all made stronger cases in the time Matsushita has been in GP2/F2) so if he takes that seat rather than Gasly, it's a bit of a joke really.

Here's a thought, though: what if all these negotiations to keep Honda in F1 have included Honda requesting Matsushita be allowed to race for Toro Rosso next year? Pure speculation on my part, but considering Ross Brawn was involved in the recent round of talks and Honda are taking a pretty bad hit if McLaren do indeed drop them, maybe that's something they pushed for? (Although to debate my own point, it's not like Ross Brawn has the power to override the FIA's Superlicense rules, so even if such a proposal was mooted by Honda and agreed upon by Brawn, there would be no guarantee the FIA themselves sign off on it. And they must surely know that if they did waive that rule, it basically makes a complete mockery of the system. But it is fun to speculate...)

If Matshutita gets the STR seat then the FIA might has well throw their new F1 super license points system into the bin.


Indeed. Supposedly it is changing for next year to put more emphasis on going through F2 (think I read that on Motorsport.com last week) so giving Matsushita a free pass would potentially further undermine that, depending on what exactly they're changing.

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Pick 10 | 1 win, 8 podiums
2017: 7th | 2016: 8th | 2015: 2nd | 2014: 15th | 2013: 17th | 2012: 11th


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:48 am 
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Posts: 23739
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
moby wrote:
If they are taking Honda, it may come with a driver.


If Nobby can get the SL points I think it's a certainty he'll be in STR-Honda. I read he might struggle to get it though but I don't follow F2 ardently enough to know how likely it is. I read he'd have to outscore Ghiotto(sp) by 35-40 points between now and the end of the season to qualify I think.


He has to finish 3rd or higher in the standings to secure enough Superlicense points. With two rounds (so four races) of the F2 season left, he's 6th overall and some 37 points behind Artem Markelov, the man in 3rd. There are 96 points available so it is mathematically still possible, but quite frankly his performances haven't suggested he's likely to do so. Not only does he have to worry about the five drivers ahead of him in the standings, but both Nyck de Vries (who has recently switched teams) and Antonio Fuoco (who seems to finally be getting a little more comfortable after stepping up from GP3 alongside Leclerc) are going to chasing him down. And anyway, he's done nothing to suggest he should be in F1 over any of a number of other drivers (Giovinazzi, Gasly, Rowland, Markelov, Sirotkin and Lynn have all made stronger cases in the time Matsushita has been in GP2/F2) so if he takes that seat rather than Gasly, it's a bit of a joke really.

Here's a thought, though: what if all these negotiations to keep Honda in F1 have included Honda requesting Matsushita be allowed to race for Toro Rosso next year? Pure speculation on my part, but considering Ross Brawn was involved in the recent round of talks and Honda are taking a pretty bad hit if McLaren do indeed drop them, maybe that's something they pushed for? (Although to debate my own point, it's not like Ross Brawn has the power to override the FIA's Superlicense rules, so even if such a proposal was mooted by Honda and agreed upon by Brawn, there would be no guarantee the FIA themselves sign off on it. And they must surely know that if they did waive that rule, it basically makes a complete mockery of the system. But it is fun to speculate...)

If Matshutita gets the STR seat then the FIA might has well throw their new F1 super license points system into the bin.


Indeed. Supposedly it is changing for next year to put more emphasis on going through F2 (think I read that on Motorsport.com last week) so giving Matsushita a free pass would potentially further undermine that, depending on what exactly they're changing.

Yes I heard something about that as well, also I remember months ago that Brawn said that a system must be put in place that there is a seat available in F1 for the best F2 drivers, I'm not sure if this would only relate to the Champion himself?

Upon reading this I put forward a ladder system whereby drivers had to qualify through the different levels and can't skip levels and then the actual F1 Super License Points would only be given out to F2 drivers, that's sort of similar to drivers having to compete in F2 before they get to F1.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 15th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:23 pm 
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Posts: 23739
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
moby wrote:
If they are taking Honda, it may come with a driver.


If Nobby can get the SL points I think it's a certainty he'll be in STR-Honda. I read he might struggle to get it though but I don't follow F2 ardently enough to know how likely it is. I read he'd have to outscore Ghiotto(sp) by 35-40 points between now and the end of the season to qualify I think.


He has to finish 3rd or higher in the standings to secure enough Superlicense points. With two rounds (so four races) of the F2 season left, he's 6th overall and some 37 points behind Artem Markelov, the man in 3rd. There are 96 points available so it is mathematically still possible, but quite frankly his performances haven't suggested he's likely to do so. Not only does he have to worry about the five drivers ahead of him in the standings, but both Nyck de Vries (who has recently switched teams) and Antonio Fuoco (who seems to finally be getting a little more comfortable after stepping up from GP3 alongside Leclerc) are going to chasing him down. And anyway, he's done nothing to suggest he should be in F1 over any of a number of other drivers (Giovinazzi, Gasly, Rowland, Markelov, Sirotkin and Lynn have all made stronger cases in the time Matsushita has been in GP2/F2) so if he takes that seat rather than Gasly, it's a bit of a joke really.

Here's a thought, though: what if all these negotiations to keep Honda in F1 have included Honda requesting Matsushita be allowed to race for Toro Rosso next year? Pure speculation on my part, but considering Ross Brawn was involved in the recent round of talks and Honda are taking a pretty bad hit if McLaren do indeed drop them, maybe that's something they pushed for? (Although to debate my own point, it's not like Ross Brawn has the power to override the FIA's Superlicense rules, so even if such a proposal was mooted by Honda and agreed upon by Brawn, there would be no guarantee the FIA themselves sign off on it. And they must surely know that if they did waive that rule, it basically makes a complete mockery of the system. But it is fun to speculate...)

If Matshutita gets the STR seat then the FIA might has well throw their new F1 super license points system into the bin.


Indeed. Supposedly it is changing for next year to put more emphasis on going through F2 (think I read that on Motorsport.com last week) so giving Matsushita a free pass would potentially further undermine that, depending on what exactly they're changing.

Just seen an article on an Austrian website that says that Honda will not dictate who drives for STR.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 15th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:34 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:20 pm
Posts: 1749
UnlikeUday wrote:
pokerman wrote:
The 2018 season is looking like a wrap then

Mercedes
Hamilton
Bottas

Ferrari
Vettel
Raikkonen

Red Bull
Verstappen
Ricciardo

McLaren
Alonso
Vandoorne

Renault
Hulkenberg
Sainz

Force India
Perez
Ocon

STR
Gasly
Kvyat

Haas
Grosjean
Magnussen

Williams
Massa
Stroll

Sauber
Leclerc
Ericsson


Sainz's gain is the last nail in Perez's coffin as far as getting a drive with a manufacturer team is concerned.

A coffin that Perez himself built, climbed into and pulled the lid shut on.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:11 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
moby wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
If Sainz moves to Renault, what are the options for STR regarding replacement? From RB's juniors surely only Gasly can be a candidate. Can they lure Leclerc or Norris away from Ferrari and McLaren respectively? Don't really see many other prospects currently?



If they are taking Honda, it may come with a driver.


If Nobby can get the SL points I think it's a certainty he'll be in STR-Honda. I read he might struggle to get it though but I don't follow F2 ardently enough to know how likely it is. I read he'd have to outscore Ghiotto(sp) by 35-40 points between now and the end of the season to qualify I think.


He has to finish 3rd or higher in the standings to secure enough Superlicense points. With two rounds (so four races) of the F2 season left, he's 6th overall and some 37 points behind Artem Markelov, the man in 3rd. There are 96 points available so it is mathematically still possible, but quite frankly his performances haven't suggested he's likely to do so. Not only does he have to worry about the five drivers ahead of him in the standings, but both Nyck de Vries (who has recently switched teams) and Antonio Fuoco (who seems to finally be getting a little more comfortable after stepping up from GP3 alongside Leclerc) are going to chasing him down. And anyway, he's done nothing to suggest he should be in F1 over any of a number of other drivers (Giovinazzi, Gasly, Rowland, Markelov, Sirotkin and Lynn have all made stronger cases in the time Matsushita has been in GP2/F2) so if he takes that seat rather than Gasly, it's a bit of a joke really.

Here's a thought, though: what if all these negotiations to keep Honda in F1 have included Honda requesting Matsushita be allowed to race for Toro Rosso next year? Pure speculation on my part, but considering Ross Brawn was involved in the recent round of talks and Honda are taking a pretty bad hit if McLaren do indeed drop them, maybe that's something they pushed for? (Although to debate my own point, it's not like Ross Brawn has the power to override the FIA's Superlicense rules, so even if such a proposal was mooted by Honda and agreed upon by Brawn, there would be no guarantee the FIA themselves sign off on it. And they must surely know that if they did waive that rule, it basically makes a complete mockery of the system. But it is fun to speculate...)


Cheers for the breakdown on the F2 shake up :thumbup:

I thought Honda may well demand their driver gets a go as it was something they apparently wanted from Sauber but as poker says AMuS are saying Honda have no say over STR/RB about drivers in the deal anyway so even if Nobby pulls a miracle he's going nowhere and deservedly so as you say.

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