mds wrote:
Exediron wrote:
But if the wording offends you, then you can replace it with 'but since he keeps crashing with people' in the early laps. It doesn't matter, because the point is the same; he's putting himself in more dangerous situations, and sometimes it doesn't pay off.
If wasn't solely that word, it was also the "keeping" part. I mean, if memory serves this is the second time this year a collision has cost him. I don't feel that is enough to establish a pattern, especially when Austria he couldn't even be held remotely responsible for anything.
You missed Spain, where contact with Bottas clearly cost him. I agree that you can't hold him responsible for Austria, but three 50/50 (or more, in the case of Hungary) incidents is still the most of any of the top drivers, by a clear margin. Maybe it's bad luck, but maybe it's also that he goes for moves that are more on the edge than the rest do.
mds wrote:
And sure he could turn in fine as Massa could make the turn too. It was not like Massa braked too late and couldn't make the corner - he could, but decided to go into Verstappen.
I compare it a bit with Ocon & Perez in Spa: if drivers now have to assume that the others are going to f*ck it up, then you can't properly race or try to overtake anywhere anymore.
I'd add that going over the speed bumps poses a risk as well.
I agree that it's the same, but then I also thought Ocon had to take some of the blame in Spa for not backing out. It was clear that he was driving into a gap Perez meant to close, and it was clear that Massa was closing the door on Max.
If you watch the video of the incident (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KZprYBQI2Y) at the 3-4 second mark, it's obvious Massa is going to run him off track, but Max is still on almost full lock. That's the time to straighten his steering and go over the bumps, and I think he has to accept a share of responsibility for the contact by not doing so. Much like any driver who hits Max after he makes a move under brakes; I think it's unfair defending, but anyone who hits him when he does it also has to take a share of the blame.
mds wrote:
Exediron wrote:
the two drivers were only on the same compound at the same time for the last 14 laps of the race, and before that Ricciardo was managing his tyres to make his strategy work while Max tried to overtake cars. However, they did each set their fastest lap of the race only a single lap apart, and Ricciardo's was a second faster than Max's. I have little doubt you'd call the race pace in favor of Max if the data was reversed, and indeed I can see very little reason not to.
Referring again to Max at that point being on much older tyres.
Also, if Ricciardo was managing his tyres, then what for Max? Ricciardo had to do 55 laps on a set of softs and a set of super softs, Max had to do 52 laps on two sets of super softs.
I'm not sure I agree with the 'much' - Max's tyres were 8 laps older, and Ricciardo was dramatically quicker from his first lap on the SS set. At that point, I don't think the age made a huge difference, considering that Max did over 20 laps on his first set with heavier fuel.
mds wrote:
Exediron wrote:
And your explanation for the second part, where I mention that I think the pattern clearly existed well before this year?
Remember Max being faster towards the later stages of some races last year as well. Either way, I will maintain last year wasn't the fairest comparison between both since Max had no build-up to the season in that car and had to learn everything on the go.
I was talking about Vettel in 2014, not anything to do with Max.
mds wrote:
Exediron wrote:
How about the fact that Ricciardo obviously was faster in China at the end? He was faster in the end at Silverstone as well, until Max made his precautionary stop.
Well, did he pass in China?
That's a disappointingly disingenuous answer, considering you know as well as me that you need to be quite a lot faster to pass, especially a driver who defends as aggressively as Max. There've been plenty of times this year when a much faster car can't pass a slower one, including Vettel and Kimi in the very same race.
mds wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
If Max's car had failed on the 2nd lap then no doubt Monza would have been another race to add to the list where Verstappen has 'dominated' Ricciardo this season.
Nobody used "dominate" as far as I know. Still, again Verstappen outperformed Ricciardo comfortably in qualifying and other people stuffed up and ruined it for him.
He was less than a tenth and a half ahead, so I think outperforming him comfortably is a bit much. He did outperform him, admittedly, but if you're going to pick misleading words with me I think you should refrain from it yourself.