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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:11 am 
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I never thought Kimi was that great. His biggest asset is he stays cool at the front.

However it's unfair to judge him at Ferrari because the development is skewed toward Vettel and he's driving a car that doesn't suit his style.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:01 am 
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Ferraris have suited Kimi since 2015, it was only the 2014 one which really didn't. Kimi's individual problems since then have been firstly lack of performance due to him not getting the best out of the Pirellis in either warming them up sufficiently or excessive wear. All the drivers suffer with these characteristics at times but Kimi's performance seems to suffer the worst.

Secondly there have also been more race collisions for him in his second Ferrari stint than before, his race concentration and alertness not being what it once was probably due to ageing. Thirdly the latter has also meant him being mugged at the start of races much more than before.

2018 really will be his last year unless he can resurrect some form really approaching his McLaren form from over a decade earlier.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:04 am 
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F1 cars only need F2-levels of downforce. Maybe even less

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:36 pm 
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Max Verstappen is the most over-rated driver on the grid.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:24 pm 
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Dunno if this will be popular or not, but time penalties for illegal overtakes are farcical. They're not a punishment at all.

If you overtake illegally, it should be a minimum of a drive through.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:26 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
Dunno if this will be popular or not, but time penalties for illegal overtakes are farcical. They're not a punishment at all.

If you overtake illegally, it should be a minimum of a drive through.

I'd agree. 5 seconds makes it a strategic choice, which it shouldn't be


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:06 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
Max Verstappen is the most over-rated driver on the grid.


:nod:


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:08 pm 
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Bentrovato wrote:
I never thought Kimi was that great. His biggest asset is he stays cool at the front.


He used to stay cool. Not anymore. Every time he's on the radio this season he sounds borderline in panic mode, complaining endlessly about problems his engineers know nothing about.
Bentrovato wrote:
However it's unfair to judge him at Ferrari because the development is skewed toward Vettel and he's driving a car that doesn't suit his style.


Nope. Disagree. He choose to be at Ferrari so he will be judged by his performance there.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:23 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
Dunno if this will be popular or not, but time penalties for illegal overtakes are farcical. They're not a punishment at all.

If you overtake illegally, it should be a minimum of a drive through.

I'd agree. 5 seconds makes it a strategic choice, which it shouldn't be

Even the 10 second penalty Rosberg got for smashing Raikkonen out the way in Malaysia wasn't a penalty, as Rosberg could just turn up the engine and pull a gap.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:56 pm 
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mas wrote:
Ferraris have suited Kimi since 2015, it was only the 2014 one which really didn't. Kimi's individual problems since then have been firstly lack of performance due to him not getting the best out of the Pirellis in either warming them up sufficiently or excessive wear. All the drivers suffer with these characteristics at times but Kimi's performance seems to suffer the worst.

Secondly there have also been more race collisions for him in his second Ferrari stint than before, his race concentration and alertness not being what it once was probably due to ageing. Thirdly the latter has also meant him being mugged at the start of races much more than before.

2018 really will be his last year unless he can resurrect some form really approaching his McLaren form from over a decade earlier.

2015? Kimi was as woeful in 2015 as he was in 2014. Vettel thrashed him in the same way Alonso did the year before.

Kimi looked better last year, but was back to woeful again for the first 5 races this year before bouncing back a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:58 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
Zoue wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
Dunno if this will be popular or not, but time penalties for illegal overtakes are farcical. They're not a punishment at all.

If you overtake illegally, it should be a minimum of a drive through.

I'd agree. 5 seconds makes it a strategic choice, which it shouldn't be

Even the 10 second penalty Rosberg got for smashing Raikkonen out the way in Malaysia wasn't a penalty, as Rosberg could just turn up the engine and pull a gap.


I don't remember that, wasn't it in Germany where he forced Max off track and got 5 seconds added at his pit stop - he actually built a big enough lead to keep the position but his mechanic used an Iphone to time the stop and it was 8.5 seconds they held him for and he ended up back behind again.

Edit - I do remember now, he stuck one down the inside from a long way back to barge Kimi going into turn 2.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:40 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
Dunno if this will be popular or not, but time penalties for illegal overtakes are farcical. They're not a punishment at all.

If you overtake illegally, it should be a minimum of a drive through.

In times gone by they had to give the place back, I don't understand why they can't do that?

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:55 pm 
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Dr. Helmut Marko cost Webber the 2010 WDC

Flavio Briatore cost Massa the 2008 WDC

We've had the least exciting mid-field / lower-team drivers of all time the past 2 seasons

Hamilton's career choices have been better than his driving

Senna and Prost are dead equal imo looking back

Ricciardo has the best race craft on the grid

People who bring up Schumacher's return to f1 as a point proving he wasn't the greatest of all time are absolute muppets.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:58 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
Zoue wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
Dunno if this will be popular or not, but time penalties for illegal overtakes are farcical. They're not a punishment at all.

If you overtake illegally, it should be a minimum of a drive through.

I'd agree. 5 seconds makes it a strategic choice, which it shouldn't be

Even the 10 second penalty Rosberg got for smashing Raikkonen out the way in Malaysia wasn't a penalty, as Rosberg could just turn up the engine and pull a gap.

That was a BS penalty and if it was this year (when they're letting them race harder) I doubt he would be hit with anything. It was aggressive but nothing crazy

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:01 am 
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DirtyMike wrote:
We've had the least exciting mid-field / lower-team drivers of all time the past 2 seasons

Not so much arguing with it - it is the unpopular opinions thread, after all! - but why do you think so? And are you counting Force India or McLaren in that category?

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:32 am 
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I'm not always so good at judging what's popular and what's not, but here's my go at it.

- The F2007 was the most beautiful F1 car built yet, and likely to stay that way. The rest of the 2007 cars were real nice, too.
- I like the shark fin.
- I like the current engine noise. It sounds just fine, and it's nice to only have to wear earplugs and not also ear defenders.
- Grid spot penalties aren't a problem, and it makes sense to reflect the team nature of the sport by applying penalties to the driver.
- Close racing and lots of overtaking isn't what F1 is about; development and producing the fastest cars is what F1 is about.
- I'd much prefer a fighter jet style enclosed canopy to any stop-gap solution like the halo.
- All the TV coverage focus on celebrities and families and such is just noise. I want to see the cars, the drivers, and the mechanics/team staff... in that order.
- We need more penalties, not less, because less penalties lead to them being given out in an erratic manner. Penalties need to be consistent and applied equally to everyone, regardless of title fights or anything else.
- Verstappen is overhyped, immature, and takes excessive risks. It's not certain yet that he'll ever get past that stage, and it's still way too soon to call it.
- A second US race is not necessary and shouldn't be considered unless it's at a really good circuit.
- Age is a factor in performance after a certain point, but it's not the same for everyone.
- Similarly, driver performance fluctuates so much that comparing drivers to previous team mates to figure out who's best really doesn't hold up.
- The really questionable defending moves and so forth that we're seeing from some of the newer drivers on the grid are a knock-on effect from not penalising questionable behaviour heavily enough previously (Schumacher and Senna, for example), and as such Vettel should've got a one race ban for his antics in Baku.
- While easy to look at and certainly important, WDCs aren't the best measure of a driver's quality.
- Teams being able to fail on their development and struggle for a time isn't a problem, but teams being unable to stay afloat for lack of resources is.

There have been a few others I agree with, but none so much as this set:

Zoue wrote:
-F1 needs a tyre war

-F1 needs unrestricted testing

-F1 needs to open up (engine) regulations and stop banning any innovation people come up with

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:08 am 
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I wonder if anyone feels like sifting through this thread and seeing if there are any especially popular unpopular opinions? :lol:

I've seen a few come up more than once that apparently aren't so unpopular after all. About half the people in here seem to think Max is overhyped, for example!

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:13 am 
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DirtyMike wrote:
We've had the least exciting mid-field / lower-team drivers of all time the past 2 seasons

Hamilton's career choices have been better than his driving

Senna and Prost are dead equal imo looking back

Ricciardo has the best race craft on the grid

People who bring up Schumacher's return to f1 as a point proving he wasn't the greatest of all time are absolute muppets.


These I completely agree with.

DirtyMike wrote:
Dr. Helmut Marko cost Webber the 2010 WDC

Flavio Briatore cost Massa the 2008 WDC


I don't really recall what influences Dr Marko had on the 2010 title race (althought I do recall Vettel was the golden boy). I feel that Webber had it sewn up until he spun in Korea. And that's from a Webber fan.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:44 am 
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Lewis Hamiltons poem about Princess Diana was really good and he should publish a book of all of his poems and musings.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:01 pm 
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Ricciardo would beat Vettel [again] in the same Machinery

Raikkonen is a total embarrassment now

Alonso made his own bed and should now sleep in it and fans should accept his lack of judgement in getting into this McLaren mess.

Redbull had a secret engine mode that mimicked traction control in slow speed corners (during their dominant years)

There is nothing between Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel in terms of race pace. (as they even with these new tyres still limited by the tyres)

Verstappen is not the new Senna

Senna and Schumacher were overrated

Monaco is no place for these beasts of Cars and should be scrapped. (i Personally dislike this race)

Monaco should be scrapped for the nurburgring gp (proper drivers track)

If Jenson drove like Lewis and Lewis like Jenson they will have go totally different press than they have in the past

I could go on and on...


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:35 pm 
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Monaco is amazing.

I wouldn't mind a night race there, having raced it at night in F1 2017.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:44 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
DirtyMike wrote:
We've had the least exciting mid-field / lower-team drivers of all time the past 2 seasons

Not so much arguing with it - it is the unpopular opinions thread, after all! - but why do you think so? And are you counting Force India or McLaren in that category?


You've actually called on the two teams i wouldn't have counted :lol: . Force India, I believe, are in their own little bracket and McLaren hardly register as a team for me at the moment.

I think it's because right now i can't really see any of them ever progressing, deserve to progress to a top team? With the exception of Sainz none of the other guys get me excited in looking forward to following their progress through the ranks and have a tilt at the title. The new 'wunderkids' are anything but. You know the moment where you watch a driver and think 'they've got the right stuff', even if it's something really small like a great defensive line or outfoxing a more experienced driver when overtaking, i haven't thought that in ages. Wehrlein seems to be glued to Ericsson most of the time, Unsure if i've actually seen Stroll pass someone without a long straight and DRS. Vandoorne gets off the hook as i don't have a large enough sample size. But you see what i'm saying,

No one EXCITES me enough to WANT to watch the midfield battles either. I could go through each driver but this is already approaching essay in length, watching guys like Palmer, Grosjean, Magnussen, Kyvat, Ericsson etc. trundle around in not particularly exciting fashion just brings me down a little. We haven't got anyone out there trying to prove to the world they can RACE by making bold moves and scrapping by their teeth for every place. No upcoming Verstappen's getting more than possible out of their car.. Or going back further Kobayashi was always pushing the limit, Bianchi (R.I.P) light up our screens, Vettel as a kid even Maldonado was always good to watch for some ambitious moves. There's always been a couple of guys you want to see racing, along with the fight at the front, but it's just lacking.

Could just be me, but there's a lack of excitement in both the young and experienced drivers. Hoping i'll be proven wrong soon!
Hope that shed some light on my thoughts :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:57 pm 
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oz_karter wrote:
DirtyMike wrote:
We've had the least exciting mid-field / lower-team drivers of all time the past 2 seasons

Hamilton's career choices have been better than his driving

Senna and Prost are dead equal imo looking back

Ricciardo has the best race craft on the grid

People who bring up Schumacher's return to f1 as a point proving he wasn't the greatest of all time are absolute muppets.


These I completely agree with.

DirtyMike wrote:
Dr. Helmut Marko cost Webber the 2010 WDC

Flavio Briatore cost Massa the 2008 WDC


I don't really recall what influences Dr Marko had on the 2010 title race (althought I do recall Vettel was the golden boy). I feel that Webber had it sewn up until he spun in Korea. And that's from a Webber fan.


Was more behind the scene stuff that a few people including Webber (unreliable source i know) have eluded to on how the garage was skewed toward Vettel's side. Constant car upgrades going on Vettel's car 1st, the incident in Turkey which somehow got blamed on Webber, Marko had the team working to get Vettel back into the Championship instead of Webber further in front at stages. You're right though, if he didn't spin he probably wins it, but if Marko wasn't there he'd probably have been far enough infront it wouldn't have mattered!
That's my unpopular opinion :D

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:25 pm 
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Here is probably a genuinely unpopular one because with hindsight it turns out ok for Red Bull -

Red Bull should have supported Webber for the title from Japan on wards when he was 21 points ahead of Vettel with 2 drivers in between them in the WDC table (Hamilton and Alonso) and that allowing both cars to fight right until the end was stupid and it was pot luck that it worked out for them.

If they let Webber beat Vettel in Japan (Vettel won, Webber 2nd) the points total looks like this going into the last 3 races -

Webber 227
Alonso 206
Vettel 199

Then going into Korea Webber would have a 21 point lead and the luxury of that lead and knowing Vettel was backing him for the title. He probably wouldn't have spun out knowing that and collected a comfortable 3rd place just bringing it home.

Webber 242
Alonso 231

Red Bull then dominant in Brazil, Webber wins, Vettel 2nd.
Webber 267
Alonso 246

AD turns out completely differently as the strategy that race was all based on Championship permutations and how the points were at that point. Webber goes into the final round with a 21 point lead and just needs to finish 7th if Alonso wins. Vettel would likely still dominate the weekend, which wins Webber the title even if he DNFs.

Worth remembering that Webber was actually good that year, not the lap dog he became 2011-2013. He won 4 races on merit and was on the podium most weeks.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:35 pm 
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That's making a huge assumption or the reason of Webber's spin in Korea...


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:09 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
That's making a huge assumption or the reason of Webber's spin in Korea...


He crashed out on the first lap in the wet due to running wide, pushed too early too soon. Even if he still DNF'd in Korea he would still lead Alonso by 6 points going into AD which statistically represents a better chance of the title than him going into AD 8 points behind Alonso and Vettel 15 behind, especially given Alonso only managed to qualify 3rd in AD and was 4th on the first lap.

If you was to re-run the entire 2010 AD weekend again and you were trying to win the WDC for either driver which scenario would you prefer given that Vettel and Hamilton were the quickest packages that weekend and likely to start 1st 2nd with Alonso/Button/Webber all very close for 3rd in qualifying. If you ran that weekend 10 times, you would probably get Ham and Vettel 1st and 2nd every time in different orders and then the other 3 mixing it up for 3rd,4th,5th each time you ran it - they were only separated by 0.1 but 0.350 behind the top 2.

1) Webber going into it 6 points ahead of Alonso but Vettel out of the title race.

2) Webber oging into it 8 points behind Alonso and Vettel 15 behind Alonso.

I would take 1, every time, 2 only worked out due to the early SC and tyre gambles further down the field.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:31 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
Monaco is amazing.

:thumbup:

Having visited Monaco about a month ago I couldn't believe how narrow it really is. I can't imagine any F1 fan that visits there for the first time wouldn't get a new appreciation for what they do. I truly believe Monaco is the greatest test of skill on the calendar

And the climb up to Ste Devote is bloody steep! TV doesn't do it justice

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:38 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Here is probably a genuinely unpopular one because with hindsight it turns out ok for Red Bull -

Red Bull should have supported Webber for the title from Japan on wards when he was 21 points ahead of Vettel with 2 drivers in between them in the WDC table (Hamilton and Alonso) and that allowing both cars to fight right until the end was stupid and it was pot luck that it worked out for them.

At the time I was convinced they were going to lose it by letting them race. McLaren's 2007 was very recent

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:28 pm 
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DirtyMike wrote:
Exediron wrote:
DirtyMike wrote:
We've had the least exciting mid-field / lower-team drivers of all time the past 2 seasons

Not so much arguing with it - it is the unpopular opinions thread, after all! - but why do you think so? And are you counting Force India or McLaren in that category?

You've actually called on the two teams i wouldn't have counted :lol: . Force India, I believe, are in their own little bracket and McLaren hardly register as a team for me at the moment.

I think it's because right now i can't really see any of them ever progressing, deserve to progress to a top team? With the exception of Sainz none of the other guys get me excited in looking forward to following their progress through the ranks and have a tilt at the title. The new 'wunderkids' are anything but. You know the moment where you watch a driver and think 'they've got the right stuff', even if it's something really small like a great defensive line or outfoxing a more experienced driver when overtaking, i haven't thought that in ages. Wehrlein seems to be glued to Ericsson most of the time, Unsure if i've actually seen Stroll pass someone without a long straight and DRS. Vandoorne gets off the hook as i don't have a large enough sample size. But you see what i'm saying,

No one EXCITES me enough to WANT to watch the midfield battles either. I could go through each driver but this is already approaching essay in length, watching guys like Palmer, Grosjean, Magnussen, Kyvat, Ericsson etc. trundle around in not particularly exciting fashion just brings me down a little. We haven't got anyone out there trying to prove to the world they can RACE by making bold moves and scrapping by their teeth for every place. No upcoming Verstappen's getting more than possible out of their car.. Or going back further Kobayashi was always pushing the limit, Bianchi (R.I.P) light up our screens, Vettel as a kid even Maldonado was always good to watch for some ambitious moves. There's always been a couple of guys you want to see racing, along with the fight at the front, but it's just lacking.

Could just be me, but there's a lack of excitement in both the young and experienced drivers. Hoping i'll be proven wrong soon!
Hope that shed some light on my thoughts :lol: :lol:

Thanks for giving your thoughts on the matter. :thumbup:

If you're not counting Force India, that does indeed take away the most exciting team in the midfield, and the most exciting of the 'wonder kids' in Ocon. However, I still find Renault interesting - their progress up the grid, and the prospect of their return as a full force in F1 - and have hopes for a much more interesting driver than Palmer to take that seat. Haas I also find interesting, even if their drivers do somewhat bore me, because it's the first real new team to have a chance at becoming established in a very long time. McLaren is my team, so of course I find it interesting.

Toro Rosso I have to admit isn't at its best right now; Kvyat is consistently a disappointment, and Sainz provides the only interest on the team. Williams is also less interesting right now, aside from watching the development of Stroll as a driver. Sauber, sad to say, is boring, and so are their drivers.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:54 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Pineapple does belong on pizza.

No

Qua? Perhaps if we added some poutine?
Free your mind, the rest will follow.

Also, Lance will be in F1, and be successful for a good long while.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:03 pm 
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LBET wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Pineapple does belong on pizza.

No

Qua? Perhaps if we added some poutine?
Free your mind, the rest will follow.

Also, Lance will be in F1, and be successful for a good long while.

I don't even care about pineapple pizza anymore. I'm still shaking over the thought of beetroot on a burger.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:47 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
LBET wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Pineapple does belong on pizza.

No

Qua? Perhaps if we added some poutine?
Free your mind, the rest will follow.

Also, Lance will be in F1, and be successful for a good long while.

I don't even care about pineapple pizza anymore. I'm still shaking over the thought of beetroot on a burger.


Buffalo chicken pizza or nothing

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:50 pm 
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Drs- is a good idea
Turbo's - are the way to go and sound way better then natural engines
Hybrid components - are whats wrong with f1 engine cost
2nd usa race - is a must

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:52 pm 
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A good Hawaiian (Canadian bacon & pineapple) is not a bad option, but I personally prefer the Supreme... beef, pepperoni, mushroom, onion, green pepper and a generous topping of cheese. However, there are not many pizzas I don't enjoy... baring ones made with seafood toppings.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:08 am 
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Exediron wrote:
DirtyMike wrote:
Exediron wrote:
DirtyMike wrote:
We've had the least exciting mid-field / lower-team drivers of all time the past 2 seasons

Not so much arguing with it - it is the unpopular opinions thread, after all! - but why do you think so? And are you counting Force India or McLaren in that category?

You've actually called on the two teams i wouldn't have counted :lol: . Force India, I believe, are in their own little bracket and McLaren hardly register as a team for me at the moment.

I think it's because right now i can't really see any of them ever progressing, deserve to progress to a top team? With the exception of Sainz none of the other guys get me excited in looking forward to following their progress through the ranks and have a tilt at the title. The new 'wunderkids' are anything but. You know the moment where you watch a driver and think 'they've got the right stuff', even if it's something really small like a great defensive line or outfoxing a more experienced driver when overtaking, i haven't thought that in ages. Wehrlein seems to be glued to Ericsson most of the time, Unsure if i've actually seen Stroll pass someone without a long straight and DRS. Vandoorne gets off the hook as i don't have a large enough sample size. But you see what i'm saying,

No one EXCITES me enough to WANT to watch the midfield battles either. I could go through each driver but this is already approaching essay in length, watching guys like Palmer, Grosjean, Magnussen, Kyvat, Ericsson etc. trundle around in not particularly exciting fashion just brings me down a little. We haven't got anyone out there trying to prove to the world they can RACE by making bold moves and scrapping by their teeth for every place. No upcoming Verstappen's getting more than possible out of their car.. Or going back further Kobayashi was always pushing the limit, Bianchi (R.I.P) light up our screens, Vettel as a kid even Maldonado was always good to watch for some ambitious moves. There's always been a couple of guys you want to see racing, along with the fight at the front, but it's just lacking.

Could just be me, but there's a lack of excitement in both the young and experienced drivers. Hoping i'll be proven wrong soon!
Hope that shed some light on my thoughts :lol: :lol:

Thanks for giving your thoughts on the matter. :thumbup:

If you're not counting Force India, that does indeed take away the most exciting team in the midfield, and the most exciting of the 'wonder kids' in Ocon. However, I still find Renault interesting - their progress up the grid, and the prospect of their return as a full force in F1 - and have hopes for a much more interesting driver than Palmer to take that seat. Haas I also find interesting, even if their drivers do somewhat bore me, because it's the first real new team to have a chance at becoming established in a very long time. McLaren is my team, so of course I find it interesting.

Toro Rosso I have to admit isn't at its best right now; Kvyat is consistently a disappointment, and Sainz provides the only interest on the team. Williams is also less interesting right now, aside from watching the development of Stroll as a driver. Sauber, sad to say, is boring, and so are their drivers.


OCON is bonafide rocket in my eyes.
Agree with you in regards to getting excited about the teams themselves. Can see Renault getting better every single year and once they dismiss Palmer can even see them fighting Force India for that 4th spot next year, thoughts?
It's only HAAS' 2nd year and they're up there with the other midfield teams which is an UNBELIEVABLE effort. Just wish their drivers inspired the emotions to go with a feat like that and further highlighted the teams progress.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:23 am 
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lamo wrote:
Here is probably a genuinely unpopular one because with hindsight it turns out ok for Red Bull -

Red Bull should have supported Webber for the title from Japan on wards when he was 21 points ahead of Vettel with 2 drivers in between them in the WDC table (Hamilton and Alonso) and that allowing both cars to fight right until the end was stupid and it was pot luck that it worked out for them.

If they let Webber beat Vettel in Japan (Vettel won, Webber 2nd) the points total looks like this going into the last 3 races -

Webber 227
Alonso 206
Vettel 199

Then going into Korea Webber would have a 21 point lead and the luxury of that lead and knowing Vettel was backing him for the title. He probably wouldn't have spun out knowing that and collected a comfortable 3rd place just bringing it home.

Webber 242
Alonso 231

Red Bull then dominant in Brazil, Webber wins, Vettel 2nd.
Webber 267
Alonso 246

AD turns out completely differently as the strategy that race was all based on Championship permutations and how the points were at that point. Webber goes into the final round with a 21 point lead and just needs to finish 7th if Alonso wins. Vettel would likely still dominate the weekend, which wins Webber the title even if he DNFs.

Worth remembering that Webber was actually good that year, not the lap dog he became 2011-2013. He won 4 races on merit and was on the podium most weeks.


DirtyMike wrote:
Dr. Helmut Marko cost Webber the 2010 WDC


Would you say you blame the good Dr. as well ?!

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:23 am 
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lamo wrote:
Here is probably a genuinely unpopular one because with hindsight it turns out ok for Red Bull -

Red Bull should have supported Webber for the title from Japan on wards when he was 21 points ahead of Vettel with 2 drivers in between them in the WDC table (Hamilton and Alonso) and that allowing both cars to fight right until the end was stupid and it was pot luck that it worked out for them.

If they let Webber beat Vettel in Japan (Vettel won, Webber 2nd) the points total looks like this going into the last 3 races -

Webber 227
Alonso 206
Vettel 199

Then going into Korea Webber would have a 21 point lead and the luxury of that lead and knowing Vettel was backing him for the title. He probably wouldn't have spun out knowing that and collected a comfortable 3rd place just bringing it home.

Webber 242
Alonso 231

Red Bull then dominant in Brazil, Webber wins, Vettel 2nd.
Webber 267
Alonso 246

AD turns out completely differently as the strategy that race was all based on Championship permutations and how the points were at that point. Webber goes into the final round with a 21 point lead and just needs to finish 7th if Alonso wins. Vettel would likely still dominate the weekend, which wins Webber the title even if he DNFs.

Worth remembering that Webber was actually good that year, not the lap dog he became 2011-2013. He won 4 races on merit and was on the podium most weeks.


DirtyMike wrote:
Dr. Helmut Marko cost Webber the 2010 WDC


Would you say you blame the good Dr. as well ?!

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:24 am 
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Posts: 159
lamo wrote:
Here is probably a genuinely unpopular one because with hindsight it turns out ok for Red Bull -

Red Bull should have supported Webber for the title from Japan on wards when he was 21 points ahead of Vettel with 2 drivers in between them in the WDC table (Hamilton and Alonso) and that allowing both cars to fight right until the end was stupid and it was pot luck that it worked out for them.

If they let Webber beat Vettel in Japan (Vettel won, Webber 2nd) the points total looks like this going into the last 3 races -

Webber 227
Alonso 206
Vettel 199

Then going into Korea Webber would have a 21 point lead and the luxury of that lead and knowing Vettel was backing him for the title. He probably wouldn't have spun out knowing that and collected a comfortable 3rd place just bringing it home.

Webber 242
Alonso 231

Red Bull then dominant in Brazil, Webber wins, Vettel 2nd.
Webber 267
Alonso 246

AD turns out completely differently as the strategy that race was all based on Championship permutations and how the points were at that point. Webber goes into the final round with a 21 point lead and just needs to finish 7th if Alonso wins. Vettel would likely still dominate the weekend, which wins Webber the title even if he DNFs.

Worth remembering that Webber was actually good that year, not the lap dog he became 2011-2013. He won 4 races on merit and was on the podium most weeks.


DirtyMike wrote:
Dr. Helmut Marko cost Webber the 2010 WDC


Would you say you blame the good Dr. as well ?!

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:12 am 
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There is nothing at all wrong with a team using team orders, and it's perfectly within their rights to dictate the finishing position of their drivers.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:14 am 
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Posts: 934
Bentrovato wrote:
I never thought Kimi was that great. His biggest asset is he stays cool at the front.

However it's unfair to judge him at Ferrari because the development is skewed toward Vettel and he's driving a car that doesn't suit his style.


I keep hearing that. His results are inconsistent and when they are inconsistent it has nothing to do with the "driving style of the car". These are the best drivers in the world.

Vettel isn't the only first driver to dominate Kimi. Alonso did the same.

I think it's unfair to even consider him a "great" when he doesn't challenge Vettel or even the Mercs enough. I also don't agree that he "stays cool". He gets frustrated more so lately - probably because Vettel is making him look average.


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