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 Post subject: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:14 pm 
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Haas has become the 1st team of 2018 to reveal its car:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/134370/haas-first-to-reveal-2018-f1-car-images

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Source - Autosport.com


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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:18 pm 
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Surely better than last year when it comes to livery. More pleasing to the eye!

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:23 pm 
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I thought the shark fin had been banned for 2018.


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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:35 pm 
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owenmahamilton wrote:
I thought the shark fin had been banned for 2018.

They cannot write a regulation "You cannot have a shark fin"

The regulations have zones in which they are allowed to put bodywork. Because of the big changes in the 2017 regs compared to the 2016, it opened the possibility of shark fins again, but also exposed a small volume the width of the rear wing, which allowed them to put T wings in.

To "get rid" of T wings is quite straight forwards, they can simply get rid of that cuboid, but the shark fins it is not possible to completely ban. They have to allow for a triangular cross section as the engine cover and roll hoop have to go there, and consequentially, the teams will always be able to build up to the edge of that triangle with what is informally referred to as "a shark fin"

Having said all that, as I understood it, the sharkfin ban had been vetoed by McLaren for sponsorship reasons. But even if implemented, teams would still be able to put a triangular one similar to what Haas have on their render.


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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:08 pm 
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A bit better than last year, but not by much. Good job of minimizing the Halo with the dark background in the side view and having it blend with the black around the cockpit in the overhead view though.

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:09 pm 
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I think there was a load of confusion around the shark fins because they were initially outright banned but then all teams provisionally agreed to bring them back for sponsorship/driver number reasons but when it came to making it official McLaren surprised everyone and blocked/vetoed bringing them back for what Zak said was visibility to the rear wing reasons but what Amus claimed was to steal a march on design of the smaller one and mess with teams who had been designing their cars with the larger fin in mind while really McLaren did the opposite.

I think it also confused people as it sounds so counter-intuitive to vote against the shark fin for sponsor reasons when the whole reason they were coming back was teams wanted the extra space for sponsors but that's what McLaren did.

http://en.f1i.com/news/286555-mclaren-v ... -2018.html

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:12 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Having said all that, as I understood it, the sharkfin ban had been vetoed by McLaren for sponsorship reasons.

McLaren: "We need more space for our fewer sponsors!"

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:26 pm 
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Any coincidence the halo is black and the background in the pictures is also black? Me thinks not!

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Livery is an improvement (although the only way was up on that horrible grey), the Halo however is just as bad as I feared it was going to be. Side on it's not the worst appendage i've ever seen on an F1 car, but the head on angle is going to be an abomination.

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:27 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
Livery is an improvement (although the only way was up on that horrible grey)...


The worthless use of a black background disguises that "horrible grey" as something brighter, which (IMO) it isn't... same old grey. Doesn't help see that "shark fin" area, either.

Take these pictures outside, please.

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:29 pm 
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The livery is a tad better but still a missed opportunity. This kind of grey color is specially annoying. And then, that red and black combination, without any creativity and courage to put something else. The most overused colors these days.

The halo is well masked, but I start to dislike it more and more.

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:03 pm 
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it took me the motorsport.com article to spot the halo.

maybe a black background or something else, but really I don't see the fuss about it.

It's just a device for protection. If it helps 1 person, it's fine by me. If it doesn't, so be it.

I don't really care much about looks of f1 cars ( if it's reasonable ). I just hope for a good year. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:30 pm 
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We were advised to reserve judgement on the halo until the 2018 cars came out. Being an integrated part of the chassis design rather than being tacked on for testing purposes was supposed to make it more aesthetically pleasing.

Well I'm afraid it looks exactly the same to me and still looks terrible, even when trying to hide it against a similarly-coloured background. I hate it.


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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:12 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
The livery is a tad better but still a missed opportunity. This kind of grey color is specially annoying. And then, that red and black combination, without any creativity and courage to put something else. The most overused colors these days.

It's their company color scheme; of course they're going to use it. Gene isn't throwing $100m a year at F1 for fun, he's doing it to promote his company.

I don't get why people are constantly surprised when Haas runs with grey, red and black. They're always going to do that, unless Haas CNC machines stop having those colors. Same as Mercedes is always going to run a silver car, and Ferrari is always going to run a red car, and Renault is always going to run a yellow car...

Criticizing the design, I get. But the colors aren't going to change.

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:52 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
The livery is a tad better but still a missed opportunity. This kind of grey color is specially annoying. And then, that red and black combination, without any creativity and courage to put something else. The most overused colors these days.

It's their company color scheme; of course they're going to use it. Gene isn't throwing $100m a year at F1 for fun, he's doing it to promote his company.

That's totally NOT why Gene decided to get into F1 at all. If all he was after was advertising, he could have EASILY inked a deal to become a title sponsor for either a team or F1 in general, much the same way Heineken and Rolex have done and it would have cost him far less to do so over a 5-year period than it costs to field a team for a single season.

The fact that a fringe benefit of competing in F1 is the widespread exposure brands & businesses receive is merely a product of circumstance. Gene's not in F1 to advertise or promote his stuff, he's just a competitive person by nature and having enjoyed many successes in NASCAR, he decided to try his hand at fielding an American outfit in the sport for the fist time in over 3 decades to see what he and his staff can achieve. It's an ongoing challenge that the entire team passionate about, and hopefully it wont be too long before they start challenging towards the front.

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:14 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
The livery is a tad better but still a missed opportunity. This kind of grey color is specially annoying. And then, that red and black combination, without any creativity and courage to put something else. The most overused colors these days.

It's their company color scheme;


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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:56 am 
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Very clever, reveal it in a dark environment to hide the toilet seat sitting on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:39 am 
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The 2 Haas cars of 2017 & 2018 when compared:

Image

Image
Source - www.imgur.com

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:39 pm 
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The angle of the photos from the front are considerably different from one another so it's difficult to really compare them to one another.
The side view pics show how similar the car is, at least from the side.

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Just to show how a nice livery can be made even out of currently overused colors:

Image
Image

Source: speedhunters/porsche archive, grandprixhistory.org

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:01 am 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
Just to show how a nice livery can be made even out of currently overused colors:

I'm sorry, but if that showed up on a modern F1 car the fans would be up in arms about how boring and unimaginative it is. There's a serious double standard with classics going on.

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:48 am 
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Never liked that livery. Just thick stripes following over the body contours. I find it dull and boring.

This however shows what is possible with a better thought out idea.

Image

https://www.google.com/amp/gtspirit.com ... miles/amp/

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:35 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
The livery is a tad better but still a missed opportunity. This kind of grey color is specially annoying. And then, that red and black combination, without any creativity and courage to put something else. The most overused colors these days.

It's their company color scheme; of course they're going to use it. Gene isn't throwing $100m a year at F1 for fun, he's doing it to promote his company.

That's totally NOT why Gene decided to get into F1 at all. If all he was after was advertising, he could have EASILY inked a deal to become a title sponsor for either a team or F1 in general, much the same way Heineken and Rolex have done and it would have cost him far less to do so over a 5-year period than it costs to field a team for a single season.

The fact that a fringe benefit of competing in F1 is the widespread exposure brands & businesses receive is merely a product of circumstance. Gene's not in F1 to advertise or promote his stuff, he's just a competitive person by nature and having enjoyed many successes in NASCAR, he decided to try his hand at fielding an American outfit in the sport for the fist time in over 3 decades to see what he and his staff can achieve. It's an ongoing challenge that the entire team passionate about, and hopefully it wont be too long before they start challenging towards the front.


I agree, but I have also been exposed to Hass in NASCAR interviews. He is a very astute businessman, and IMO he would not have had much trouble finding major US sponsors if he wished. But his approach is sane, he knows that his first five years in Formula One are just building the experience and team to reach for better things.

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:28 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Never liked that livery. Just thick stripes following over the body contours. I find it dull and boring.

This however shows what is possible with a better thought out idea.

[Unsourced photo removed]


I have to disagree. That livery does nothing to enhance the car, in fact it obliterates the lines and breaks the car into red and black "chunks". While i like the colors, I much prefer flowing lines that create the illusion of speed even when at rest.

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Livery is a personal thing. What one may find very appealing may induce vomiting for another.

But each team devote a lot of time and resources with market surveys and other tools to find the most effective paint scheme. And that depends on their goals. The 2007 Honda carried the "Earth" colors, the Benettons were flashy and multi-color for shock value and brand association, and the BAR that ran different liveries on opposite sides of the car was ... confusing. Still is. In the tobacco era they tried to make most cars look like a pack of cigarettes.

And the teams have to deal with the halo (and sharkfin) with the same philosophy. Please remember, what you see in a reveal where the background and lighting is carefully controlled and on track are two completely different scenarios. What may appear fugly in a reveal may be the opposite in the sunshine and on track. Or vice versa.

On a personal side note, liveries mean jack to me. As one more interested in the mechanicals, my eyes scan the mechanical details, the overall aesthetics come far down my list of priorities.

For example, Haas are still using a lot of Ferrari components, including the suspension components. So what you see on the Haas you will see in the not-yet revealed Ferrari.

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:10 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Livery is a personal thing. What one may find very appealing may induce vomiting for another.

But each team devote a lot of time and resources with market surveys and other tools to find the most effective paint scheme. And that depends on their goals. The 2007 Honda carried the "Earth" colors, the Benettons were flashy and multi-color for shock value and brand association, and the BAR that ran different liveries on opposite sides of the car was ... confusing. Still is. In the tobacco era they tried to make most cars look like a pack of cigarettes.

And the teams have to deal with the halo (and sharkfin) with the same philosophy. Please remember, what you see in a reveal where the background and lighting is carefully controlled and on track are two completely different scenarios. What may appear fugly in a reveal may be the opposite in the sunshine and on track. Or vice versa.

On a personal side note, liveries mean jack to me. As one more interested in the mechanicals, my eyes scan the mechanical details, the overall aesthetics come far down my list of priorities.

For example, Haas are still using a lot of Ferrari components, including the suspension components. So what you see on the Haas you will see in the not-yet revealed Ferrari.


With that BAR, the idea was to run one car in the 555 colours and the other in Lucky Strike.... the FIA stomped their feet about running 2 cars with different liveries, and thus the half and half compromise was born. Allowing cars to run in their own liveries has its pros and cons I guess, Indycar seems to manage just fine with people know what car belongs to what team even with different liveries (although they have the numbers allocated to the car, no?).

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:36 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
Indycar seems to manage just fine with people know what car belongs to what team even with different liveries (although they have the numbers allocated to the car, no?).

Actually, as a part-time watcher of IndyCar (at least half the races a year) I find it extremely confusing and I can't keep straight which team anybody is on. Luckily it doesn't really matter, since IndyCar is pretty much a pure driver's championship - the winning team is the one with the winning driver - but I would love it if the team had a consistent livery that was only modified by the individual sponsors, rather than totally separate liveries. It's particularly confusing since a team can have one to four cars, so you can't even figure it out by the basis of narrowing the field down by twos.

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:06 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Indycar seems to manage just fine with people know what car belongs to what team even with different liveries (although they have the numbers allocated to the car, no?).

Actually, as a part-time watcher of IndyCar (at least half the races a year) I find it extremely confusing and I can't keep straight which team anybody is on. Luckily it doesn't really matter, since IndyCar is pretty much a pure driver's championship - the winning team is the one with the winning driver - but I would love it if the team had a consistent livery that was only modified by the individual sponsors, rather than totally separate liveries. It's particularly confusing since a team can have one to four cars, so you can't even figure it out by the basis of narrowing the field down by twos.



Fair do's, I was under the impression that people liked having sponsors (and thus liveries) tied to the cars rather than the teams over there, guess it shows just how much of an outsider looking in that I am lol.

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:46 pm 
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I won’t ever get used to the halo. Ever. Not for a lack of trying, either. I just cannot STAND LOOKING AT IT.

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:07 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Indycar seems to manage just fine with people know what car belongs to what team even with different liveries (although they have the numbers allocated to the car, no?).

Actually, as a part-time watcher of IndyCar (at least half the races a year) I find it extremely confusing and I can't keep straight which team anybody is on. Luckily it doesn't really matter, since IndyCar is pretty much a pure driver's championship - the winning team is the one with the winning driver - but I would love it if the team had a consistent livery that was only modified by the individual sponsors, rather than totally separate liveries. It's particularly confusing since a team can have one to four cars, so you can't even figure it out by the basis of narrowing the field down by twos.


I agree, the many different liveries can be difficult to sort out if you are not a regular fan. But having different liveries confers a tremendous gain for the fans, it reduces "team orders" and favored driver status within a team. Each sponsor pays a handsome amount to have their livery on a car, and they do not tolerate any team forgetting who really pay the bills. So although a team may have three of four cars, once the race begins it is fundamentally each driver for himself. The result is an insanely competitive environment, one that benefits the fans.

Additionally, if you are a fan of a driver, they are instantly recognizable because only they run that paint scheme.

Personally I believe this is a much better system than Formula One forcing each team to place identical paint schemes and sponsors on each car. In Formula One we have seen too frequently a team ordering the trailing driver to just follow, and not attack their teammate ahead. In Indycar, trust me, that never happens. We Indycar fans watch very exciting and interesting races, and the outcome is never a certainty.

Match fixing does not exist in Indycar like Formula One, and each fan knows that "their" driver will not be held back by team orders.

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:04 am 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Match fixing does not exist in Indycar like Formula One, and each fan knows that "their" driver will not be held back by team orders.

Match fixing doesn't exist in Formula One either, once you realize it's a team sport. Indycar is different from F1: it's fundamentally a driver's championship, whereas F1 - with the team as the largest performance diferentioator - is and always has been in truth a team's championship.

I'm not a fan of Alonso, or Vandoorne, first and foremost. I'm a fan of McLaren. As such, I favor drivers running the team livery because it is the team livery. Drivers are a very important element of the team, but that's what they are: team members. The team does not exist to serve the driver.

I would be happy if there was more ability (as in any) to customize the two cars in F1, but I completely feel that they should be bound to run a consistent team livery overall.

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:20 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Indycar seems to manage just fine with people know what car belongs to what team even with different liveries (although they have the numbers allocated to the car, no?).

Actually, as a part-time watcher of IndyCar (at least half the races a year) I find it extremely confusing and I can't keep straight which team anybody is on. Luckily it doesn't really matter, since IndyCar is pretty much a pure driver's championship - the winning team is the one with the winning driver - but I would love it if the team had a consistent livery that was only modified by the individual sponsors, rather than totally separate liveries. It's particularly confusing since a team can have one to four cars, so you can't even figure it out by the basis of narrowing the field down by twos.

I have the same problem with IndyCar. The teams are faceless entities to me. When I began watching F1 there was a red Ferrari, a black/grey McLaren, a yellow Jordan, etc. You could associate Eddie Jordan in a yellow jacket with his team. It was much easier deciphering who was who

Trying to remember which IndyCar drivers are teammates is a memory test

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 Post subject: Re: Haas VF-18 Revealed!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:03 pm 
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Blake wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Never liked that livery. Just thick stripes following over the body contours. I find it dull and boring.

This however shows what is possible with a better thought out idea.

[Unsourced photo removed]


I have to disagree. That livery does nothing to enhance the car, in fact it obliterates the lines and breaks the car into red and black "chunks". While i like the colors, I much prefer flowing lines that create the illusion of speed even when at rest.

I agree I prefer flowing lines that compliment cars shapes and lines but it doesn’t mean that something like this hides a car’s lines. While they are “chunks” of color, they section off the front, mid and rear sections of the car cleanly and every flowing line is quite visible. It also doesn’t look slow.

Regardless, the reason I posted that was to show how well their colors can look together, and while it may not be flawless on this car, it would likely work well on the F1 variety of car. F1 cars are so minimalistic in real estate that the area allotted for elements is limited so almost anything can look goood so long as colors are pieces together carefully. Look at the Force India in the white livery with orange and green elements, it looked ok but nothing close to jaw dropping, but when they switched to the black base the livery came to life. The car looked sleek and mean. The Haas could be made to look more sleek, clean and aggressive with their brand colors but to execute a superb livery it takes a solid designer that can create a layout that flows well while incorporating all the sponsors in just the right way that it doesn’t feel like any of the elements are fighting for notoriety. Given how few sponsors Haas has, it should’ve been less difficult to achieve than for others.

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