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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:35 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AravJ wrote:
2016 and mid 2017 Honda was not too bad though about midfield on par with the chasis

Yes it was very convenient for McLaren to put 100% of the blame onto the Honda engine.

Even Honda admitted their PU was poor. Let's not rewrite history to pretend otherwise.

The point was simply that after having to endure a sub-standard PU for three years, it would be a bit of a kick in the teeth for McLaren if Honda started to come good just after they finally walked away, handing a rival all the fruits of their three years of development


So we are just going to pretend that Mclaren using the same engine as redbull now and still look no better than Force India was all Honda.

Considering everyone can tell Redbull is being held back by Renault.

Mclaren was and still is awful fooling people with we have the best chassis only the PU is hoolding us back.


Yeah I don't understand why some people still can't accept that fact. Mclaren most likely never had a good chassis. You could spin it however you want and say that this year is not last year blah blah blah... It doesn't work. The current chassis is miles off the best on the grid, and it's obvious that the Honda cars weren't that good either and not just because of Honda.
Seriously, they need to restructure their whole team. Personally, I may sound harsh, but I think the drivers, Bouiller, Promodou, to name a few, should all be replaced. It is just not working. Just blow up the whole thing and start over with fresh blood.

I don't think that you can blame the drivers.

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AravJ wrote:
2016 and mid 2017 Honda was not too bad though about midfield on par with the chasis

Yes it was very convenient for McLaren to put 100% of the blame onto the Honda engine.

Even Honda admitted their PU was poor. Let's not rewrite history to pretend otherwise.

The point was simply that after having to endure a sub-standard PU for three years, it would be a bit of a kick in the teeth for McLaren if Honda started to come good just after they finally walked away, handing a rival all the fruits of their three years of development

The Honda PU was preventing McLaren from being a top team?

There's a simple point being made here, which seems to be escaping you and some others. And that's that the Honda PU has been terrible for the last three years - irrespective of any other issues the team may have had - and it would be frustrating for McLaren if, after having had to endure that for three years, Honda finally looked to be getting it right after they divorced and lost Works status. In other words, McLaren would have become Red Bull's development team, which would undoubtedly be frustrating for them.

That's it.

It's questionable that Honda would have improved as much as they have done this year given the design restraints that McLaren gave them?

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:58 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yes it was very convenient for McLaren to put 100% of the blame onto the Honda engine.

Even Honda admitted their PU was poor. Let's not rewrite history to pretend otherwise.

The point was simply that after having to endure a sub-standard PU for three years, it would be a bit of a kick in the teeth for McLaren if Honda started to come good just after they finally walked away, handing a rival all the fruits of their three years of development

The Honda PU was preventing McLaren from being a top team?

There's a simple point being made here, which seems to be escaping you and some others. And that's that the Honda PU has been terrible for the last three years - irrespective of any other issues the team may have had - and it would be frustrating for McLaren if, after having had to endure that for three years, Honda finally looked to be getting it right after they divorced and lost Works status. In other words, McLaren would have become Red Bull's development team, which would undoubtedly be frustrating for them.

That's it.

It's questionable that Honda would have improved as much as they have done this year given the design restraints that McLaren gave them?

You're looking too deep into it. It's simply an observation that McLaren might have cause to feel frustrated if Honda came good now they have split after the painful last three years.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:05 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Even Honda admitted their PU was poor. Let's not rewrite history to pretend otherwise.

The point was simply that after having to endure a sub-standard PU for three years, it would be a bit of a kick in the teeth for McLaren if Honda started to come good just after they finally walked away, handing a rival all the fruits of their three years of development

The Honda PU was preventing McLaren from being a top team?

There's a simple point being made here, which seems to be escaping you and some others. And that's that the Honda PU has been terrible for the last three years - irrespective of any other issues the team may have had - and it would be frustrating for McLaren if, after having had to endure that for three years, Honda finally looked to be getting it right after they divorced and lost Works status. In other words, McLaren would have become Red Bull's development team, which would undoubtedly be frustrating for them.

That's it.

It's questionable that Honda would have improved as much as they have done this year given the design restraints that McLaren gave them?

You're looking too deep into it. It's simply an observation that McLaren might have cause to feel frustrated if Honda came good now they have split after the painful last three years.

It's actual very relevant, Honda were able to find an extra 30hp from the get go just by the extra room they were given by STR for the engine installation.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:06 pm 
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Stroll looking out of his depth again, much slower than Sirotkin then hits the wall.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:20 pm 
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It's questionable that Honda would have improved as much as they have done this year given the design restraints that McLaren gave them?

You're looking too deep into it. It's simply an observation that McLaren might have cause to feel frustrated if Honda came good now they have split after the painful last three years.

It's actual very relevant, Honda were able to find an extra 30hp from the get go just by the extra room they were given by STR for the engine installation.

I've heard this said before, but seen nothing to back it up. Have Honda actually said this or is it just hearsay?
Also if true this is also Hondas fault, they could have told Mclaren they needed the space, can't blame only one party


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:33 pm 
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Top speeds from FP1:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:38 pm 
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dompclarke wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It's questionable that Honda would have improved as much as they have done this year given the design restraints that McLaren gave them?

You're looking too deep into it. It's simply an observation that McLaren might have cause to feel frustrated if Honda came good now they have split after the painful last three years.

It's actual very relevant, Honda were able to find an extra 30hp from the get go just by the extra room they were given by STR for the engine installation.

I've heard this said before, but seen nothing to back it up. Have Honda actually said this or is it just hearsay?
Also if true this is also Hondas fault, they could have told Mclaren they needed the space, can't blame only one party

It's all part of the working relationship which wasn't good, seems better at STR?

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:53 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:05 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It's questionable that Honda would have improved as much as they have done this year given the design restraints that McLaren gave them?

You're looking too deep into it. It's simply an observation that McLaren might have cause to feel frustrated if Honda came good now they have split after the painful last three years.

It's actual very relevant, Honda were able to find an extra 30hp from the get go just by the extra room they were given by STR for the engine installation.

I've heard this said before, but seen nothing to back it up. Have Honda actually said this or is it just hearsay?
Also if true this is also Hondas fault, they could have told Mclaren they needed the space, can't blame only one party

It's all part of the working relationship which wasn't good, seems better at STR?


Do you mean a better relationship or the engines? As recently they had a slump that they partly blame Honda for.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13587 ... -for-slump

We can count the nice position in Monaco as a win for them, but not sure how much Monaco is relevant. We did see an engine winning by having 160bhp less after all.

So lets wait and see.

The one thing that we know is that STR are happier with Honda. But this is not just the performance of the engine, just the way they co-operate with them. In the past they were just customers, not they develop the engine with the manufacturer for the first time.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13488 ... rs-wouldnt

So that may be skewing the image a bit.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:58 pm 
pokerman wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It's questionable that Honda would have improved as much as they have done this year given the design restraints that McLaren gave them?

You're looking too deep into it. It's simply an observation that McLaren might have cause to feel frustrated if Honda came good now they have split after the painful last three years.

It's actual very relevant, Honda were able to find an extra 30hp from the get go just by the extra room they were given by STR for the engine installation.

I've heard this said before, but seen nothing to back it up. Have Honda actually said this or is it just hearsay?
Also if true this is also Hondas fault, they could have told Mclaren they needed the space, can't blame only one party

It's all part of the working relationship which wasn't good, seems better at STR?

Which still seems to be hearsay, unless you have any info on either Honda or McLaren saying so...

All I've heard or read are outsiders opinions with no evidence they are correct


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:09 pm 
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A Honda engine fastest in the speed trap, Red Bulls 1st and 3rd in an engine heavy circuit...FP1 has me puzzled :)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:15 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yes it was very convenient for McLaren to put 100% of the blame onto the Honda engine.

Even Honda admitted their PU was poor. Let's not rewrite history to pretend otherwise.

The point was simply that after having to endure a sub-standard PU for three years, it would be a bit of a kick in the teeth for McLaren if Honda started to come good just after they finally walked away, handing a rival all the fruits of their three years of development

The Honda PU was preventing McLaren from being a top team?

There's a simple point being made here, which seems to be escaping you and some others. And that's that the Honda PU has been terrible for the last three years - irrespective of any other issues the team may have had - and it would be frustrating for McLaren if, after having had to endure that for three years, Honda finally looked to be getting it right after they divorced and lost Works status. In other words, McLaren would have become Red Bull's development team, which would undoubtedly be frustrating for them.

That's it.

It's questionable that Honda would have improved as much as they have done this year given the design restraints that McLaren gave them?


Like I said the last time you claimed this, McLaren allowed structural changes to the PU in every winter they were together so I don't see why they would suddenly not allow them to?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:27 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
The Honda PU was preventing McLaren from being a top team?

There's a simple point being made here, which seems to be escaping you and some others. And that's that the Honda PU has been terrible for the last three years - irrespective of any other issues the team may have had - and it would be frustrating for McLaren if, after having had to endure that for three years, Honda finally looked to be getting it right after they divorced and lost Works status. In other words, McLaren would have become Red Bull's development team, which would undoubtedly be frustrating for them.

That's it.

It's questionable that Honda would have improved as much as they have done this year given the design restraints that McLaren gave them?

You're looking too deep into it. It's simply an observation that McLaren might have cause to feel frustrated if Honda came good now they have split after the painful last three years.

It's actual very relevant, Honda were able to find an extra 30hp from the get go just by the extra room they were given by STR for the engine installation.


You mean 10kw(13bhp) from the bigger exhaust manifold? Still no reason why McLaren wouldn't allow them to make a similar change if Honda told them what it would bring.

Doing that might have been tricky though admittedly as Honda called it an "unexpected" gain so if you can't tell your chassis maker what any change will bring how can that chassis maker decide if it's worth the compromise to the car?

Probably a good example of why the McHonda partnership failed actually,Honda are still in a learning phase, more trial and error really whereas McLaren and Alonso were, perhaps foolishly or unfairly, expecting much much more.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:35 pm 
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sainz into the wall, red flag


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:36 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:

You mean 10kw(13bhp) from the bigger exhaust manifold? Still no reason why McLaren wouldn't allow them to make a similar change if Honda told them what it would bring.

Doing that might have been tricky though admittedly as Honda called it an "unexpected" gain so if you can't tell your chassis maker what any change will bring how can that chassis maker decide if it's worth the compromise to the car?

Probably a good example of why the McHonda partnership failed actually,Honda are still in a learning phase, more trial and error really whereas McLaren and Alonso were, perhaps foolishly or unfairly, expecting much much more.


Also foolishly or unfairly expecting Honda could pull the midfield chassis to the front


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:37 pm 
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Canada is a tough track for Sainz


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:44 pm 
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AravJ wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:

You mean 10kw(13bhp) from the bigger exhaust manifold? Still no reason why McLaren wouldn't allow them to make a similar change if Honda told them what it would bring.

Doing that might have been tricky though admittedly as Honda called it an "unexpected" gain so if you can't tell your chassis maker what any change will bring how can that chassis maker decide if it's worth the compromise to the car?

Probably a good example of why the McHonda partnership failed actually,Honda are still in a learning phase, more trial and error really whereas McLaren and Alonso were, perhaps foolishly or unfairly, expecting much much more.


Also foolishly or unfairly expecting Honda could pull the midfield chassis to the front


I think they just expected an engine that could at least deploy all the way down the straight and not last two races when it needed to last 5. :-|


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:45 pm 
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Reliability showing again why Ricciardo can't win this championship, it's a shame really.

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2018: 12th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:47 pm 
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redbull looking fast here


Last edited by lucifers on Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:47 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
The Honda PU was preventing McLaren from being a top team?

There's a simple point being made here, which seems to be escaping you and some others. And that's that the Honda PU has been terrible for the last three years - irrespective of any other issues the team may have had - and it would be frustrating for McLaren if, after having had to endure that for three years, Honda finally looked to be getting it right after they divorced and lost Works status. In other words, McLaren would have become Red Bull's development team, which would undoubtedly be frustrating for them.

That's it.

It's questionable that Honda would have improved as much as they have done this year given the design restraints that McLaren gave them?

You're looking too deep into it. It's simply an observation that McLaren might have cause to feel frustrated if Honda came good now they have split after the painful last three years.

It's actual very relevant, Honda were able to find an extra 30hp from the get go just by the extra room they were given by STR for the engine installation.

It's not relevant at all. I don't know how else to say it, so I'll just leave it at that :?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:50 pm 
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dompclarke wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It's questionable that Honda would have improved as much as they have done this year given the design restraints that McLaren gave them?

You're looking too deep into it. It's simply an observation that McLaren might have cause to feel frustrated if Honda came good now they have split after the painful last three years.

It's actual very relevant, Honda were able to find an extra 30hp from the get go just by the extra room they were given by STR for the engine installation.

I've heard this said before, but seen nothing to back it up. Have Honda actually said this or is it just hearsay?
Also if true this is also Hondas fault, they could have told Mclaren they needed the space, can't blame only one party


I think I recall reading it was because STR allowed Honda room to fit a 'log' exhaust.
I just googled but can not find an article so maybe it was 'made up'


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:51 pm 
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I hate driver coaching, telling Stroll how to drive the track.

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:53 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
There's a simple point being made here, which seems to be escaping you and some others. And that's that the Honda PU has been terrible for the last three years - irrespective of any other issues the team may have had - and it would be frustrating for McLaren if, after having had to endure that for three years, Honda finally looked to be getting it right after they divorced and lost Works status. In other words, McLaren would have become Red Bull's development team, which would undoubtedly be frustrating for them.

That's it.

It's questionable that Honda would have improved as much as they have done this year given the design restraints that McLaren gave them?

You're looking too deep into it. It's simply an observation that McLaren might have cause to feel frustrated if Honda came good now they have split after the painful last three years.

It's actual very relevant, Honda were able to find an extra 30hp from the get go just by the extra room they were given by STR for the engine installation.


You mean 10kw(13bhp) from the bigger exhaust manifold? Still no reason why McLaren wouldn't allow them to make a similar change if Honda told them what it would bring.

Doing that might have been tricky though admittedly as Honda called it an "unexpected" gain so if you can't tell your chassis maker what any change will bring how can that chassis maker decide if it's worth the compromise to the car?

Probably a good example of why the McHonda partnership failed actually,Honda are still in a learning phase, more trial and error really whereas McLaren and Alonso were, perhaps foolishly or unfairly, expecting much much more.

Yes it was to do with the extra room they had for the exhaust.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:53 pm 
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Top speed goes to, as this fella goes off track!.... :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:56 pm 
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Vandoorne driving like crazy trying to keep up with Alonso.

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2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:00 pm 
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This will be an important weekend for Hamilton. I think the Merc will be at a disadvantage against all of these upgraded power units out there. This will be an important damage limitation weekend. It also happens to be probably his strongest circuit. If he can make the difference here and buy the team some additional time to complete the new PU upgrades, it will be huge for his championship. Mercedes already seem to have the most reliable engine. They just need to make performance gains.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:06 pm 
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Did Hamilton really do his best lap on the super soft as the graphic suggests?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:14 pm 
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Vettel struggling or sand bagging?

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2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:18 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Vettel struggling or sand bagging?


He had traffic a couple of times I think and he hasn't done many laps for some reason in either session I don't think. Expect he'll be there or thereabouts come qualifying though.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:24 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Did Hamilton really do his best lap on the super soft as the graphic suggests?


yes, quite early in the session too


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:36 pm 
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lucifers wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Did Hamilton really do his best lap on the super soft as the graphic suggests?


yes, quite early in the session too


Interesting. No idea what to read into this session :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:38 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
lucifers wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Did Hamilton really do his best lap on the super soft as the graphic suggests?


yes, quite early in the session too


Interesting. No idea what to read into this session :lol:

Yes Sky have just confirmed it.

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2016: 4th Place

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:40 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Vettel struggling or sand bagging?


He had traffic a couple of times I think and he hasn't done many laps for some reason in either session I don't think. Expect he'll be there or thereabouts come qualifying though.

He had a big set up change, he is known for sand bagging though.

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:01 pm 
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AravJ wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:

You mean 10kw(13bhp) from the bigger exhaust manifold? Still no reason why McLaren wouldn't allow them to make a similar change if Honda told them what it would bring.

Doing that might have been tricky though admittedly as Honda called it an "unexpected" gain so if you can't tell your chassis maker what any change will bring how can that chassis maker decide if it's worth the compromise to the car?

Probably a good example of why the McHonda partnership failed actually,Honda are still in a learning phase, more trial and error really whereas McLaren and Alonso were, perhaps foolishly or unfairly, expecting much much more.


Also foolishly or unfairly expecting Honda could pull the midfield chassis to the front


Not really, Alonso said they lacked to the top guys more than once. Unfortunately he also said they had "one of the best" so predictably the "one" was dropped and that's all anyone chooses to remember which is neither McLaren or Alonso's problem really.

Plus we had 3 different chassis's during the McHonda era so which is it or are we expected to believe now that they are the only team to suffer no variance in performance chassis wise during this time?

I'm going to guess it's the latter to go along with the ridiculous picking and choosing of what Alonso quotes are supposed to sum up McLaren's view on their own chassis recently.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:03 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
JN23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Vettel struggling or sand bagging?


He had traffic a couple of times I think and he hasn't done many laps for some reason in either session I don't think. Expect he'll be there or thereabouts come qualifying though.

He had a big set up change, he is known for sand bagging though.


:thumbup:

Kimi looks quick without the engine upgrade and this is one of Kimi's worst circuits. Vettel will stick it on pole in Q3 "against all odds".


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:09 pm 
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moby wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It's questionable that Honda would have improved as much as they have done this year given the design restraints that McLaren gave them?

You're looking too deep into it. It's simply an observation that McLaren might have cause to feel frustrated if Honda came good now they have split after the painful last three years.

It's actual very relevant, Honda were able to find an extra 30hp from the get go just by the extra room they were given by STR for the engine installation.

I've heard this said before, but seen nothing to back it up. Have Honda actually said this or is it just hearsay?
Also if true this is also Hondas fault, they could have told Mclaren they needed the space, can't blame only one party


I think I recall reading it was because STR allowed Honda room to fit a 'log' exhaust.
I just googled but can not find an article so maybe it was 'made up'


There was room left in the STR chassis where Renault took up more space in that area so Honda increased the size of the manifold and got an unexpected power bump from it.

Not 30bhp though, but 13bhp.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:13 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
JN23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Vettel struggling or sand bagging?


He had traffic a couple of times I think and he hasn't done many laps for some reason in either session I don't think. Expect he'll be there or thereabouts come qualifying though.

He had a big set up change, he is known for sand bagging though.


:thumbup:

Kimi looks quick without the engine upgrade and this is one of Kimi's worst circuits. Vettel will stick it on pole in Q3 "against all odds".

One of his worst, really? He won it in 2005 after starting from 7th place, a record only bettered once, I believe, and shares the record for number of fastest laps here with Michael Schumacher. He has only ever not finished in the points once in all the years he's raced here, and that was courtesy of a certain Mr "Woodeneye" who crashed into the back of him in the pits and took him out of the race in 2008.

I don't think his record here is that terrible


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:15 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
moby wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
You're looking too deep into it. It's simply an observation that McLaren might have cause to feel frustrated if Honda came good now they have split after the painful last three years.

It's actual very relevant, Honda were able to find an extra 30hp from the get go just by the extra room they were given by STR for the engine installation.

I've heard this said before, but seen nothing to back it up. Have Honda actually said this or is it just hearsay?
Also if true this is also Hondas fault, they could have told Mclaren they needed the space, can't blame only one party


I think I recall reading it was because STR allowed Honda room to fit a 'log' exhaust.
I just googled but can not find an article so maybe it was 'made up'


There was room left in the STR chassis where Renault took up more space in that area so Honda increased the size of the manifold and got an unexpected power bump from it.

Not 30bhp though, but 13bhp.

I think the unexpected part is a pretty salient point. McLaren can hardly be accused of holding them back there when even Honda weren't aware of the potential gains to be made


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:45 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
I hate driver coaching, telling Stroll how to drive the track.

I don't really mind it. If they aren't told when they're on track they get the info inbetween runs anyway.

You can put Stroll in a Mercedes, tell him to brake, turn in and get on the power at the same points Hamilton does, he still won't beat him. Knowing how to do something and actually being able to do it are two very different things.


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