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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:17 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Wow I was sure Hamilton had lost that after that super sruffy Rascasse, how bad was Bottas' provisional final sector? 8O

Cant believe Vettel's car held up after that touch, looked fast.


Because it was a side swipe not a head on hit!


We will find out tomorrow if either of Vettels hits cost him, could have damaged the gearbox with either, especially the second one.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:19 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:

Ferrari is suffering from rear stability and downforce whereas the Redbull lacks power two different things!

The Red Bull car itself is slower than the Mercedes as well and let's not forget that Monaco is not an engine track, how do the drivers cope that have worse cars than the Ferrari?


You just confirmed what I just said, because its more of a high downforce track the guys with low downforce will struggle its only normal.

When you have to push such happens, case of Hamilton on his pole lap.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:19 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
bottas will be hoping for hamilton to have a very bad start. That is about his only chance. Despite some saying Bottas is no different to last year, i disagree. He is putting Hamilton under some serious pressure in qualifying htis year. And Hamilton is looking like he's feeling the pressure. IN the races, unless Bottas gets the start though, Hamilton does look quicker. but i still think Bottas is a fair bit better than last year.


You can overcut at Monaco, its literally the only track it is possible on as it can take 3-4 laps to get heat into the new tyres.

Vettel won in 2017 by overcutting Raikkonen. Also 2011 and 2012 it played a big role in changing places. If Bottas can keep within 3 seconds of Hamilton, he has a chance.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:21 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Wow I was sure Hamilton had lost that after that super sruffy Rascasse, how bad was Bottas' provisional final sector? 8O

Cant believe Vettel's car held up after that touch, looked fast.


Because it was a side swipe not a head on hit!


We will find out tomorrow if either of Vettels hits cost him, could have damaged the gearbox with either, especially the second one.


And of what benefit will that be, him retiring from the race?


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:24 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:

Cheers I've been looking for that but the official site doesn't seem to be working right? :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:26 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:

Ferrari is suffering from rear stability and downforce whereas the Redbull lacks power two different things!

The Red Bull car itself is slower than the Mercedes as well and let's not forget that Monaco is not an engine track, how do the drivers cope that have worse cars than the Ferrari?


You just confirmed what I just said, because its more of a high downforce track the guys with low downforce will struggle its only normal.

When you have to push such happens, case of Hamilton on his pole lap.

Ferrari still have more down force than the other 7 teams that are left, how do their drivers cope with driving such poor cars?

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:27 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Wow I was sure Hamilton had lost that after that super sruffy Rascasse, how bad was Bottas' provisional final sector? 8O

Cant believe Vettel's car held up after that touch, looked fast.


Because it was a side swipe not a head on hit!


We will find out tomorrow if either of Vettels hits cost him, could have damaged the gearbox with either, especially the second one.


And of what benefit will that be, him retiring from the race?


Benefit?

I was saying, we will see how costly Vettel's errors were, tomorrow. Unless Ferrari change the gearbox overnight.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:28 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
bottas will be hoping for hamilton to have a very bad start. That is about his only chance. Despite some saying Bottas is no different to last year, i disagree. He is putting Hamilton under some serious pressure in qualifying htis year. And Hamilton is looking like he's feeling the pressure. IN the races, unless Bottas gets the start though, Hamilton does look quicker. but i still think Bottas is a fair bit better than last year.


You can overcut at Monaco, its literally the only track it is possible on as it can take 3-4 laps to get heat into the new tyres.

Vettel won in 2017 by overcutting Raikkonen. Also 2011 and 2012 it played a big role in changing places. If Bottas can keep within 3 seconds of Hamilton, he has a chance.

I believe Kimi got held up behind Verstappen after his stop though, strange how Ferrari didn't foresee that? ;)

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:31 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Rockie wrote:

Take to task in what way?


Make a fuss and tell them they need to buck their ideas up. Hard to do that when you're making mistakes yourself. It took errors from both Leclerc and Ferrari to put Leclerc in the position he is in.

Ferrari aren't operating like a top team and neither Leclerc or Vettel are driving like top drivers.


Maybe just maybe the car is not there and the drivers over compensating!


Then that's the drivers not doing a very good job. Honestly for drivers in the 2nd best car you would expect better than that.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:55 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Rockie wrote:

Take to task in what way?


Make a fuss and tell them they need to buck their ideas up. Hard to do that when you're making mistakes yourself. It took errors from both Leclerc and Ferrari to put Leclerc in the position he is in.

Ferrari aren't operating like a top team and neither Leclerc or Vettel are driving like top drivers.


Maybe just maybe the car is not there and the drivers over compensating!


Then that's the drivers not doing a very good job. Honestly for drivers in the 2nd best car you would expect better than that.


Here at Monaco that will be Redbull as the second best car, Gasly is just a tenth behind Vettel.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 3:07 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Rockie wrote:

Take to task in what way?


Make a fuss and tell them they need to buck their ideas up. Hard to do that when you're making mistakes yourself. It took errors from both Leclerc and Ferrari to put Leclerc in the position he is in.

Ferrari aren't operating like a top team and neither Leclerc or Vettel are driving like top drivers.


Maybe just maybe the car is not there and the drivers over compensating!


Then that's the drivers not doing a very good job. Honestly for drivers in the 2nd best car you would expect better than that.


Here at Monaco that will be Redbull as the second best car, Gasly is just a tenth behind Vettel.

I'm sure Vettel would have gone quicker if he hadn't hit the barrier?

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 3:07 pm 
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Gasly is gaining confidence in the car now.

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 3:12 pm 
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Qualy best sector times:

Image
Source - http://www.imgur.com

Qualy maximum speeds attained:

Image
Source - http://www.imgur.com

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 3:14 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Rockie wrote:

Take to task in what way?


Make a fuss and tell them they need to buck their ideas up. Hard to do that when you're making mistakes yourself. It took errors from both Leclerc and Ferrari to put Leclerc in the position he is in.

Ferrari aren't operating like a top team and neither Leclerc or Vettel are driving like top drivers.


Maybe just maybe the car is not there and the drivers over compensating!


Then that's the drivers not doing a very good job. Honestly for drivers in the 2nd best car you would expect better than that.


Here at Monaco that will be Redbull as the second best car, Gasly is just a tenth behind Vettel.


I was talking about their performance over the season not just here. Call it 3rd best if you like. Everything I said still stands.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 4:00 pm 
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Giovinazzi has been given a 3 place grid penalty fo impeding Hulk:
https://www.racefans.net/2019/05/25/giovinazzi-given-three-place-penalty-for-impeding-hulkenberg/

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 4:22 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Qualy best sector times:

Image
Source - http://www.imgur.com

Qualy maximum speeds attained:

Image
Source - http://www.imgur.com

The Mercs second slowest top speeds only faster than Williams.

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 4:24 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Giovinazzi has been given a 3 place grid penalty fo impeding Hulk:
https://www.racefans.net/2019/05/25/giovinazzi-given-three-place-penalty-for-impeding-hulkenberg/

No penalty for Gasly then?

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 4:26 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Giovinazzi has been given a 3 place grid penalty fo impeding Hulk:
https://www.racefans.net/2019/05/25/giovinazzi-given-three-place-penalty-for-impeding-hulkenberg/

No penalty for Gasly then?


A decision hasn't been made yet. Gasly surely will get a penalty as Grosjean could've had a big crash had he not braked in time.

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 4:31 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Giovinazzi has been given a 3 place grid penalty fo impeding Hulk:
https://www.racefans.net/2019/05/25/giovinazzi-given-three-place-penalty-for-impeding-hulkenberg/

No penalty for Gasly then?


A decision hasn't been made yet. Gasly surely will get a penalty as Grosjean could've had a big crash had he not braked in time.

Yeah the Gasly one looked worse.

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 4:39 pm 
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Yups, he got it...3 place penalty for Gasly confirmed.

https://www.racefans.net/2019/05/25/gas ... -grosjean/


Last edited by Sudarshan on Sat May 25, 2019 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 4:40 pm 
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Gasly - 3 places:
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/37875/pierre-gasly-gets-three-place-penalty-for-blocking-romain-grosjean.html

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 4:57 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
bottas will be hoping for hamilton to have a very bad start. That is about his only chance. Despite some saying Bottas is no different to last year, i disagree. He is putting Hamilton under some serious pressure in qualifying htis year. And Hamilton is looking like he's feeling the pressure. IN the races, unless Bottas gets the start though, Hamilton does look quicker. but i still think Bottas is a fair bit better than last year.


How has Hamilton shown he is feeling the pressure? I think he realises he has a bigger fight than usual from Bottas but not sure he's feeling any pressure (yet).


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 5:08 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 5:20 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Giovinazzi has been given a 3 place grid penalty fo impeding Hulk:
https://www.racefans.net/2019/05/25/giovinazzi-given-three-place-penalty-for-impeding-hulkenberg/

No penalty for Gasly then?

Gasly demoted from P5 to P8 for impeding Grosjean.

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 5:29 pm 
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That was a fun session to watch, as always here in Monaco. Hamilton got the job done and I wouldn't bet against him for tomorrow. I must say though that I continue to be impressed by Bottas in 2019. He has become a very serious threat on Saturdays for Lewis and I think his single lap pace is extremely strong. That's always been his strength but this year he has taken it up another notch and is forcing Lewis to be right on the limit if he wants to out-qualify him. I think the drivers' performance at Mercedes is often overlooked but, for me, it is as big of a piece of the puzzle as anything else. They are both performing excellently and taking the maximum from the car.

Ferrari, on the other hand, seem to struggle to take the maximum from their car and indeed from their weekends. They were on the backfoot already after FP3 but what happened with Charles is inexcusable. That's not hindsight speaking either. I said in the moment as I was watching that Charles was going to be cut. P12 was never safe with the track evolving so fast and so here we go again with the bonehead decisions. Things have gotten worse this year with regards to that and I think they need to really ask themselves the question; Why did we fire Maurizio Arrivabene? I don't think their drivers have performed particularly well this eyar either but it's clear that the main issue is still leadership and strategic execution. They need to try to attract someone who is a real big boy in F1; like Brawn, Horner or Wolf. I know that's easier said than done but they need that kind of credibility and experience to turn their program around.

Another brilliant day from Max as well and you continue to get the impression that he is absolutely maximizing his potential in these races. He's doing a fine job. Gasly behind by 4 tenths yet again. he's just not in the same league but I think he is probably a fairly average F1 driver. He doesn't belong up front though and I think this season is a battle between Kvyatt and Albon to see who gets Gasly's seat in 2020. My vote would be for Albon personally.

Good performances by Dan and KMag as well. One of them might be able to poach a high result with some luck and Charles starting so far back.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 6:37 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:

One of the comments to this is really funny. "Grosjean wants to hit the gas" That works so well! :lol: I'm sure he did feel like going faster as well as maybe wanting to hit Gasly.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:02 am 
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For what it's worth, just watched quali again & this is the timeline with Leclerc missing out.

5:50 to go - Leclerc enters pits & drives past the weighbridge
5:00 to go - Leclerc at weighbridge as camera leaves
3:15 to go - Vettel enters pits after clouting the barrier. Weighbridge is empty & no sign of Leclercs car being pushed towards garage in pit lane.
1:44 to go - Vettel exits pits. That's a turn around of about 1:45 to wheel the car in, check it out, add fuel & tyres, fire it up & go.

So if we estimate Leclerc spent an additional 10 sec at the weighbridge after the camera shot leaves, & maybe 20 sec's getting back to his garage, that gives his team about 4:30 mins to prep his car for another run & a full 1:30 to at least prep for another run before Vettel pitted.

That's plenty of time to assess the situation & at least have him sitting in the car ready to go.

It's baffling how a team with the resource availability that Ferrari has could make such a miscalculation & do it at the one track on the calendar where your qualifying position is so influential on the outcome of your race.

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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 1:45 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
For what it's worth, just watched quali again & this is the timeline with Leclerc missing out.

5:50 to go - Leclerc enters pits & drives past the weighbridge
5:00 to go - Leclerc at weighbridge as camera leaves
3:15 to go - Vettel enters pits after clouting the barrier. Weighbridge is empty & no sign of Leclercs car being pushed towards garage in pit lane.
1:44 to go - Vettel exits pits. That's a turn around of about 1:45 to wheel the car in, check it out, add fuel & tyres, fire it up & go.

So if we estimate Leclerc spent an additional 10 sec at the weighbridge after the camera shot leaves, & maybe 20 sec's getting back to his garage, that gives his team about 4:30 mins to prep his car for another run & a full 1:30 to at least prep for another run before Vettel pitted.

That's plenty of time to assess the situation & at least have him sitting in the car ready to go.

It's baffling how a team with the resource availability that Ferrari has could make such a miscalculation & do it at the one track on the calendar where your qualifying position is so influential on the outcome of your race.


Binotto came out and said it was an "error in judgement" not to send Charles out for another lap. They were trying to save a set of tires for tomorrow.

“Definitely not a good day. In Q1 we made an error of judgement. We thought Charles’ time would have been good enough to get into the next part of the session and so we kept him in the garage, sending out just Sebastian who, at that moment, was one of those who was excluded.”

“Track conditions evolved more than we expected the drivers were finding more grip on track. This meant many of them improved their times and as a result, Charles was eliminated.”

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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 1:50 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
For what it's worth, just watched quali again & this is the timeline with Leclerc missing out.

5:50 to go - Leclerc enters pits & drives past the weighbridge
5:00 to go - Leclerc at weighbridge as camera leaves
3:15 to go - Vettel enters pits after clouting the barrier. Weighbridge is empty & no sign of Leclercs car being pushed towards garage in pit lane.
1:44 to go - Vettel exits pits. That's a turn around of about 1:45 to wheel the car in, check it out, add fuel & tyres, fire it up & go.

So if we estimate Leclerc spent an additional 10 sec at the weighbridge after the camera shot leaves, & maybe 20 sec's getting back to his garage, that gives his team about 4:30 mins to prep his car for another run & a full 1:30 to at least prep for another run before Vettel pitted.

That's plenty of time to assess the situation & at least have him sitting in the car ready to go.

It's baffling how a team with the resource availability that Ferrari has could make such a miscalculation & do it at the one track on the calendar where your qualifying position is so influential on the outcome of your race.

Unless I missed something it hasn't been suggested that they couldn't have got him out, they just thought he was safe on that time and chose not to go again.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:45 am 
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Rockie wrote:
whatever happened to Bottas and Verstappen?

Neither of them were able to improve on their final run. Both struggled to get the tires up to temperature. Lots of traffic at the end.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 9:44 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Binotto came out and said it was an "error in judgement" not to send Charles out for another lap. They were trying to save a set of tires for tomorrow.


Regardless of the car, I think Ferrari needs to work much harder on this aspect of their team. They often make poor calls, when to pit etc, and often take too long to make important decisions. Even when they had a very competitive car they've let victories slip due to this. The effects of this gets compounded by Vettel getting hot headed and makes mistakes when things are not going his way, so improving in this area can have a huge impact for their overall results I think.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 9:49 am 
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Lord Crc wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Binotto came out and said it was an "error in judgement" not to send Charles out for another lap. They were trying to save a set of tires for tomorrow.


Regardless of the car, I think Ferrari needs to work much harder on this aspect of their team. They often make poor calls ........


I really feel they struggle to run two cars. All two often it appears that they have one car on a reasonable strat, but more or less forget they have a second car running.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 10:57 am 
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Lojik wrote:
Lord Crc wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Binotto came out and said it was an "error in judgement" not to send Charles out for another lap. They were trying to save a set of tires for tomorrow.


Regardless of the car, I think Ferrari needs to work much harder on this aspect of their team. They often make poor calls ........


I really feel they struggle to run two cars. All two often it appears that they have one car on a reasonable strat, but more or less forget they have a second car running.


If that is the case then it's just totally embarrassing, They get, what is it $100million above everyone else and the can't run two cars. That's farcical.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:38 am 
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Just listened to team radio of leclerc saying with complete confidence they need to go for another lap and they told him no

LOL


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 12:20 am 
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Lojik wrote:
Lord Crc wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Binotto came out and said it was an "error in judgement" not to send Charles out for another lap. They were trying to save a set of tires for tomorrow.


Regardless of the car, I think Ferrari needs to work much harder on this aspect of their team. They often make poor calls ........


I really feel they struggle to run two cars. All two often it appears that they have one car on a reasonable strat, but more or less forget they have a second car running.

I think perhaps they've gotten use to only concentrating on one car when Kimi was around?

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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 12:21 am 
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FormulaFun wrote:
Just listened to team radio of leclerc saying with complete confidence they need to go for another lap and they told him no

LOL

Leclerc really has one arm tied behind his back and perhaps it's starting to affect him given how he drove in the race?

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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 6:45 am 
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pokerman wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Just listened to team radio of leclerc saying with complete confidence they need to go for another lap and they told him no

LOL

Leclerc really has one arm tied behind his back and perhaps it's starting to affect him given how he drove in the race?

I think he was just a bit unfortunate in the race tbh. His overtake on Grosjean was superb IMO and I do think he was a little unfortunate that Hulk closed the door in the way that he did. He didn't have many options otherwise to be fair


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 11:51 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Just listened to team radio of leclerc saying with complete confidence they need to go for another lap and they told him no

LOL

Leclerc really has one arm tied behind his back and perhaps it's starting to affect him given how he drove in the race?

I think he was just a bit unfortunate in the race tbh. His overtake on Grosjean was superb IMO and I do think he was a little unfortunate that Hulk closed the door in the way that he did. He didn't have many options otherwise to be fair

Leclerc passed Grosjean the lap before so he basically was looking to pass the Hulk as soon as he caught him, that reeks of impatience, I daresay the Hulk didn't even see him and this closing the door seems to be a new thing for absolving clumsy overtaking attempts?

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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 6:03 am 
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There's no such thing as a non clumsy Monaco overtake really.


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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 6:14 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Just listened to team radio of leclerc saying with complete confidence they need to go for another lap and they told him no

LOL

Leclerc really has one arm tied behind his back and perhaps it's starting to affect him given how he drove in the race?

I think he was just a bit unfortunate in the race tbh. His overtake on Grosjean was superb IMO and I do think he was a little unfortunate that Hulk closed the door in the way that he did. He didn't have many options otherwise to be fair

Leclerc passed Grosjean the lap before so he basically was looking to pass the Hulk as soon as he caught him, that reeks of impatience, I daresay the Hulk didn't even see him and this closing the door seems to be a new thing for absolving clumsy overtaking attempts?
As migeyg123 says any overtaking attempt at Monaco involves a certain amount of bravado; there's just no opportunity to overtake without it.


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