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Pick the top two immortal Teams
McLaren (1988-1991) 20%  20%  [ 8 ]
Williams (1992-1997) 15%  15%  [ 6 ]
Ferrari (2000-2004) 30%  30%  [ 12 ]
Red Bull (2009-2013) 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Mercedes (2014-2018) 33%  33%  [ 13 ]
Total votes : 40
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 Post subject: Re: F1 Immortal Teams
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 7:22 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:

Also, Benetton took the fight to Williams twice in their dominant era, as did Ferrari in 1997. In 1996 they lost races to a car that was basically a bathtub on wheels!!!

Anyway, only at the RBR years (not all) did I feel the same hopelessness that I feel today where "no one can reach that rocketship", and even that is nowhere near to what we see today. Partly because of the Merc dominance and partly because of Ferrari's inability to capitalise in a good car the last two seasons.

That's mainly because you had Schumacher racing against inferior drivers.

Oh goody, here we go again ...The great driver drought of 1995 thru 2007 when the great drivers suddenly re-surfaced. Poor Schumi...to have lived in the only era of F1 to only have one quality driver.
:lol:

Or was it because Schumi was so superior? In that case the other drivers were inferior, but only to Schumi. Perhaps, had Schumi's timeline been shifted back 15 years, we would be saying that Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso and the rest were/are inferior drivers. Wouldn't that be a kick in the teeth to some.
;)

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 Post subject: Re: F1 Immortal Teams
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 7:28 am 
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Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:

Also, Benetton took the fight to Williams twice in their dominant era, as did Ferrari in 1997. In 1996 they lost races to a car that was basically a bathtub on wheels!!!

Anyway, only at the RBR years (not all) did I feel the same hopelessness that I feel today where "no one can reach that rocketship", and even that is nowhere near to what we see today. Partly because of the Merc dominance and partly because of Ferrari's inability to capitalise in a good car the last two seasons.

That's mainly because you had Schumacher racing against inferior drivers.

Oh goody, here we go again ...The great driver drought of 1995 thru 2007 when the great drivers suddenly re-surfaced. Poor Schumi...to have lived in the only era of F1 to only have one quality driver.
:lol:


TBF they are only referencing 95 and 96 where I do think it's fair to say the're were not the top line drivers there were before or after.

It would be utterly bizarre if the grid always happened to be at the same standard. There are ebbs and flows. For example I don't think the grid is as strong this year as it was five years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Immortal Teams
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 7:40 am 
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I couldn't vote sorry. The domination of engineering over drivers goes against sport in view. For me the immortality comes form drivers like Jim Clark, Jack Brabham and Juan Manuel Fangio.

Its worth taking a look at the cars of that era, no halos, no protection and no grip just pure skill and bravery. That's immortal!


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Immortal Teams
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 8:44 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
I couldn't vote sorry. The domination of engineering over drivers goes against sport in view. For me the immortality comes form drivers like Jim Clark, Jack Brabham and Juan Manuel Fangio.

Its worth taking a look at the cars of that era, no halos, no protection and no grip just pure skill and bravery. That's immortal!

Jack Brabham is immortal because he was so good at designing his own cars... that's engineering. Fangio always drove the best car he could get his hands on, and Clark drove the all-conquering Chapman Lotuses. All of those immortal drivers were paired with immortal cars.

Just like it's always been, and still is.

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 Post subject: Re: F1 Immortal Teams
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:15 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
I couldn't vote sorry. The domination of engineering over drivers goes against sport in view. For me the immortality comes form drivers like Jim Clark, Jack Brabham and Juan Manuel Fangio.

Its worth taking a look at the cars of that era, no halos, no protection and no grip just pure skill and bravery. That's immortal!

Jack Brabham is immortal because he was so good at designing his own cars... that's engineering. Fangio always drove the best car he could get his hands on, and Clark drove the all-conquering Chapman Lotuses. All of those immortal drivers were paired with immortal cars.

Just like it's always been, and still is.


Or perhaps they looked all conquering because Clark was driving them?

Having a dominant package almost always has to include a good driver. Very few of the dominant cars listed in this thread looked dominant in the hands of the 2nd driver.

Put two average drivers in a Ferrari 00-04 And it's not dominant. Same for Williams 92-97 etc


Last edited by mikeyg123 on Sat May 25, 2019 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: F1 Immortal Teams
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:12 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
I couldn't vote sorry. The domination of engineering over drivers goes against sport in view. For me the immortality comes form drivers like Jim Clark, Jack Brabham and Juan Manuel Fangio.

Its worth taking a look at the cars of that era, no halos, no protection and no grip just pure skill and bravery. That's immortal!

Jack Brabham is immortal because he was so good at designing his own cars... that's engineering. Fangio always drove the best car he could get his hands on, and Clark drove the all-conquering Chapman Lotuses. All of those immortal drivers were paired with immortal cars.

Just like it's always been, and still is.


Well yes but he was aa winner twice in someone else's car before. That's not engineering!


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Immortal Teams
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:18 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
I couldn't vote sorry. The domination of engineering over drivers goes against sport in view. For me the immortality comes form drivers like Jim Clark, Jack Brabham and Juan Manuel Fangio.

Its worth taking a look at the cars of that era, no halos, no protection and no grip just pure skill and bravery. That's immortal!

Jack Brabham is immortal because he was so good at designing his own cars... that's engineering. Fangio always drove the best car he could get his hands on, and Clark drove the all-conquering Chapman Lotuses. All of those immortal drivers were paired with immortal cars.

Just like it's always been, and still is.


Well yes but he was aa winner twice in someone else's car before. That's not engineering!


He had a big hand in the design of the Cooper's he raced & won a couple of championships with too.

From Wikipedia:

"There he became part of the Cooper Car Company's racing team, building as well as racing cars. He contributed to the design of the mid-engined cars that Cooper introduced to Formula One and the Indianapolis 500, and won the Formula One world championship in 1959 and 1960".

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 Post subject: Re: F1 Immortal Teams
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:06 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
I couldn't vote sorry. The domination of engineering over drivers goes against sport in view. For me the immortality comes form drivers like Jim Clark, Jack Brabham and Juan Manuel Fangio.

Its worth taking a look at the cars of that era, no halos, no protection and no grip just pure skill and bravery. That's immortal!

You are free as to whether or not you wish to participate in the poll, but what you are describing is not what the poll/thread is about. It was just a way of describing the multi-year domination periods by a constructor, where they have a team that is perfectly executing every move. I got the idea of the name from the term 'immortal game' in Chess, where it's considered the grandmaster has executed perfect play, whatever their opponent does.


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Immortal Teams
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:55 pm 
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I realise that ATH and in no way intended to be disrespectful. I was just pointing out that at the start of F1 the competition seemed to me to be all about the drivers.
Then it seems to me teams took over, McLaren, Ferrari, Mercs etc.
I just like the "mano a mano" aspect of it, you could see the drivers rather than them buried in titanium and kevlar. I completely get that I'm off topic.


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