planetf1.com

It is currently Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:00 pm

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 5:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:20 am
Posts: 952
JN23 wrote:

Didn't Vettel get a penalty for doing similar in Hungary 2010?


Yes he did, to allow Webber to pit and come out ahead of Alonso.

I completely forgot Hamiltons Bahrain 2017 penalty, this makes Bottas' today an absolute slam dunk penalty. Unless the rules have changed, which it appears they have not.

So, 3rd is not a bad result for Bottas. If he had stacked behind Hamilton he almost certainly would have ended up 4th.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 5:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am
Posts: 1706
Johnson wrote:
This is the rule Bottas potentially broke, rules 30.5 (SC) and 40.3 (VSC)

"No car may be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed
potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person at any time whilst the VSC
procedure is in use. This will apply whether any such car is being driven on the track, the pit
entry or the pit lane.
"

Bottas backed up and dropped about 7 seconds to Hamilton. He was 1.1 behind Hamilton before the SC was deployed, when he crossed the start finish line with both having just made a pit stop, he was then 8.3 behind.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... i%20Bottas

So maybe it was just about within the limits or something. If the rules are that obvious and he broke them, he would have got a penalty without doubt. Not that we know what it is, but there is obviously a reason why he won't have been investigated at all (not even noted). If he held other drivers up unfairly, surely they will have reported it and it certainly would have either been heard on radio or noted by the stewards. So that is why i don't see how he was in the wrong.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 5:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:20 am
Posts: 952
Just because he wasn't penalised doesn't mean anything. Maybe because Charlie Whiting wasn't there and they aren't so on the ball. Maybe what happened with Verstappen changed there application of the rules. He dropped 7 seconds to Hamilton who we know was not speeding and likely driving the delta. Given that Max and Vettel were right behind him, he held them both up by approximately 7 seconds.

There are no ifs, buts or maybes, he drove unneccesarily slowly. He got away with it though, lucky boy.

Mercedes made an error today, if they wanted a 1-2 they needed to run the cars 4-5 seconds apart once they realised they could not run away. If there was no SC in this race, Bottas likely would have ended up 3rd too. Because Mercedes would have reacted to Verstappen/Vettel undercut attempt with Hamilton and thus Bottas would have been very vulberable to an undercut from that driver. Mercedes should have learnt this lesson in 2013.


Last edited by Johnson on Sun May 26, 2019 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 5:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 5199
sandman1347 wrote:
Did anyone see what happened to Ricciardo? He was in 5th early in the race but somehow he dropped down to 12th after the stops and never recovered. What happened there?


He and K-Mag went on the same tyre strat as Lewis but they got stuck behind Kimi who was going long in the first stint. They pitted Lap 11 but Kimi went on to L46 without stopping on the Softs so it completely ruined both Dan and K-Mag's day unfortunately for them.

Monaco problems basically.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 6:05 pm 
Online

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6327
Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Did anyone see what happened to Ricciardo? He was in 5th early in the race but somehow he dropped down to 12th after the stops and never recovered. What happened there?


He and K-Mag went on the same tyre strat as Lewis but they got stuck behind Kimi who was going long in the first stint. They pitted Lap 11 but Kimi went on to L46 without stopping on the Softs so it completely ruined both Dan and K-Mag's day unfortunately for them.

Monaco problems basically.

Thanks for that. Yeah honestly I knew that everyone behind the front 4 should just stay out during the safety car. it was too early to come in there when there's traffic behind.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 6:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 5199
sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Did anyone see what happened to Ricciardo? He was in 5th early in the race but somehow he dropped down to 12th after the stops and never recovered. What happened there?


He and K-Mag went on the same tyre strat as Lewis but they got stuck behind Kimi who was going long in the first stint. They pitted Lap 11 but Kimi went on to L46 without stopping on the Softs so it completely ruined both Dan and K-Mag's day unfortunately for them.

Monaco problems basically.

Thanks for that. Yeah honestly I knew that everyone behind the front 4 should just stay out during the safety car. it was too early to come in there when there's traffic behind.


No problem, Yeah it can be a lottery there that early. Helped Gro,the STR's and Sainz staying out longer I think.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 6:14 pm 
Online

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:50 am
Posts: 1053
Location: UK
Rockie wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Herb wrote:
Bacus wrote:

Incredible driver!



Verstappen broke the 1-2 by puncturing Bottas' tyre.


Same way Leclerc reliability allowed Mercedes win in Bahrain, matters not it's still Hamilton, Vettel and Bottas.


You are right but how long can Ferrari continue to to support their slower driver? Leclerc overtook drivers in the race, Vettel didn't and admits he was just waiting for a mistake. If I were Vettel I would be beginning to get embarrassed.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Delusional does not begin to describe the nonsense you put above, yeah will back a driver who put it in the barrier overtaking midfield drivers versus the guy who finished second, I can see why you are the most sort after Team principal in the paddock.


Vettel was slower than Leclerc in qualifying. He got through to final qualifying at Leclerc's expense after Ferrari made a complete mess of Q1 but at least Leclerc had a go at racing on race day making passes on a circuit renown for being a hard to overtake on.

Vettel had a continuance of his recent error strewn performances, he hit the barriers on 3 occasions and looked a shadow of his former self.

In interview yesterday he seemed disengaged and when retirement cam up he denied it, however, when these words crop up in interview often the real thing isn't far away.

I don't understand your attack on Leclerc, I thought you supported Ferrari, he can only get better and I believe Vettel is slower than him, backed up by some recent recorded times, as time goes on Leclerc can only get faster.

By all means support your man but blindly denying what many already see as reality is, in your words delusional. All the goading in the world wont change the fact that Vettel is in decline. In 2 years time Vettel, Kimi and Hamilton may well be gone. Leclerc, Verstappen and Albon? will be names on caps and T-shirts. Face up to it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 6:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 31122
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Aspar wrote:
Just catching up, why is Hamilton with Mediums while all others are with hards? What's merc's idea or they just screwed with strategy, as usual on this track?

Mercedes screwed his strategy

They screwed Bottas's strategy as well, as both were put on the mediums.

I don't know what Merc were thinking. Track position is king so put on the longer lasting tyres, it's a no brainer.

Yep we're 6 races in and this is the second time they've put Hamilton on the wrong tyre strategy the other being Bahrain, in Bahrain Hamilton somehow was able to make things work out for himself in respect to Vettel, Mercedes are not as slick as they might seem.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 6:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 31122
wolfticket wrote:
I don't think time penalties are good for on track action or particularly fair (they're very circumstantial; sometimes they make a huge difference and sometimes none at all).

I'd like to see penalty lanes at tracks, so the equivalent of a 5 or 10 second penalty could be applied on track with immediate and obvious consequences. Like a shorter drive through penalty.

Most of the 5 second penalties are a joke and we just saw one today just a light slap on the wrist.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 6:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 31122
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Boring race as expected. I think the most annoying part is the driver at lead can crawl to the victory and rest can't do anything about it as there is barely space for 2 cars :uhoh: Same for the midfield battle. Ricciardo and KMag got behind and were stuck in traffic. Sainz got lucky and STR simply followed him all race.

Hamilton moaning was very annoying. Wish Mercedes had asked him to pit. It would be slightly more interesting race as Max would at least had a go and build 5+secs gap and rest had to respond rather than just counting laps.


Mercedes are concerned about race wins and not what the driver wants.


Hamilton said after the race that he was never going to pit anyways. He is just a drama queen and kept on complaining all the time and this is not the first time he is doing this :uhoh:

If he said that then I'm relieved because otherwise what was he thinking?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 6:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 31122
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Now this makes things interesting:

https://www.racefans.net/2019/05/26/ver ... d-contact/

So it is looking like the penalty was not for an unsafe release. The penalty was for Verstappen hitting Bottas which infact makes a bit more sense. The team still were a bit silly to let him out when he did, but Bottas moved right and still got hit by Verstappen and by the look of it, not just once. He has also got 2 penalty points. So both the 5 second penalty and the 2 penalty points for Verstappen are looking to be because of his own actions and not because of the team unsafe release. Though in a way that resulted in them happening.

To add on to this, I thought Verstappen was totally idiotic at the end of the race. 2 laps to go, and he just couldn't have built up enough of a gap to beat Bottas with the penalty, but he takes a risk of knocking himself out of the race anyway. That was so close to being the end of his race and possibly Hamilton's. People say his pace was excellent. I can't disagree there, but 2 moments of his race were very clumsy, especially in the final stages where what he did was a totally pointless attempt even if it worked.

Yeah I guessed the penalty points were for hitting Bottas in the pit lane that's all on Verstappen and given he punctured Bottas' tyre what kind of a penalty 5 seconds was still giving Verstappen the chance of winning the race whilst Bottas dropped from 2nd down to 4th and let's not forget the 2 fingers it puts up to safety in the pit lane.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 6:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 31122
sandman1347 wrote:
Did anyone see what happened to Ricciardo? He was in 5th early in the race but somehow he dropped down to 12th after the stops and never recovered. What happened there?

He pitted under the SC then was held up behind slower cars and lost time to cars who stayed out.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 7:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 25158
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Johnson wrote:
This is the rule Bottas potentially broke, rules 30.5 (SC) and 40.3 (VSC)

"No car may be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed
potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person at any time whilst the VSC
procedure is in use. This will apply whether any such car is being driven on the track, the pit
entry or the pit lane.
"

Bottas backed up and dropped about 7 seconds to Hamilton. He was 1.1 behind Hamilton before the SC was deployed, when he crossed the start finish line with both having just made a pit stop, he was then 8.3 behind.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... i%20Bottas

So maybe it was just about within the limits or something. If the rules are that obvious and he broke them, he would have got a penalty without doubt. Not that we know what it is, but there is obviously a reason why he won't have been investigated at all (not even noted). If he held other drivers up unfairly, surely they will have reported it and it certainly would have either been heard on radio or noted by the stewards. So that is why i don't see how he was in the wrong.
That's not really true. There are plenty of examples of stewards missing infringements and I don't think it's accurate to say that if they miss something then there's nothing wrong.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 7:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15020
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Now this makes things interesting:

https://www.racefans.net/2019/05/26/ver ... d-contact/

So it is looking like the penalty was not for an unsafe release. The penalty was for Verstappen hitting Bottas which infact makes a bit more sense. The team still were a bit silly to let him out when he did, but Bottas moved right and still got hit by Verstappen and by the look of it, not just once. He has also got 2 penalty points. So both the 5 second penalty and the 2 penalty points for Verstappen are looking to be because of his own actions and not because of the team unsafe release. Though in a way that resulted in them happening.

To add on to this, I thought Verstappen was totally idiotic at the end of the race. 2 laps to go, and he just couldn't have built up enough of a gap to beat Bottas with the penalty, but he takes a risk of knocking himself out of the race anyway. That was so close to being the end of his race and possibly Hamilton's. People say his pace was excellent. I can't disagree there, but 2 moments of his race were very clumsy, especially in the final stages where what he did was a totally pointless attempt even if it worked.


That's just not true. He only needed an extra couple of seconds. With Hamilton going so slowly he would definitely have a good shot at pulling the gap. I think he had to try something. Hamilton had a lot more to lose. It was worth the punt as a last resort.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 8:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:23 am
Posts: 2732
:uhoh: Nasty scene between Hamilton and Vowles post race


https://www.facebook.com/MercedesAMGF1/ ... 504214775/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 8:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:14 am
Posts: 816
Location: Stratford
shoot999 wrote:
:uhoh: Nasty scene between Hamilton and Vowles post race


https://www.facebook.com/MercedesAMGF1/ ... 504214775/


This was funny :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 8:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:23 am
Posts: 2732
:uhoh: Nasty scene between Hamilton and Vowles post race


https://www.facebook.com/MercedesAMGF1/ ... 504214775/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 8:37 pm 
Online

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6327
JN23 wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
:uhoh: Nasty scene between Hamilton and Vowles post race


https://www.facebook.com/MercedesAMGF1/ ... 504214775/


This was funny :lol:

James is a funny guy


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 8:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 25158
shoot999 wrote:
:uhoh: Nasty scene between Hamilton and Vowles post race


https://www.facebook.com/MercedesAMGF1/ ... 504214775/

:thumbup: :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 8:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:14 am
Posts: 816
Location: Stratford
Hamilton did a really good job and got Merc out of a bit of a hole. Toto said afterwards they thought the mediums would last to the end.

Thought Verstappen was a bit lucky to not get a harsher penalty for the pit lane incident. I don't really like the five second time penalty but hardly the biggest issue facing the sport at the moment.

Not sure how there was two stewards in the pit lane exit as Perez was exiting.

Honourable mentions to Sainz, Russell, Kvyat. Albon doing a decent job again, I really like him.

A good race as far as Monaco GPs go. I watched the C4 highlights later on, I don't think it quite got the tension of watching it live.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 9:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:06 pm
Posts: 235
Just watched the highlights of C4.

The tribute for Niki at the end was spot on. I don't think there could have been a more fitting song used. (the impossible dream)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 9:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:14 am
Posts: 816
Location: Stratford
cmberry20 wrote:
Just watched the highlights of C4.

The tribute for Niki at the end was spot on. I don't think there could have been a more fitting song used. (the impossible dream)


:thumbup: that was really well done


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 10:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:58 am
Posts: 956
Location: Kansas
pokerman wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Aspar wrote:
Just catching up, why is Hamilton with Mediums while all others are with hards? What's merc's idea or they just screwed with strategy, as usual on this track?

Mercedes screwed his strategy

They screwed Bottas's strategy as well, as both were put on the mediums.

I don't know what Merc were thinking. Track position is king so put on the longer lasting tyres, it's a no brainer.

Yep we're 6 races in and this is the second time they've put Hamilton on the wrong tyre strategy the other being Bahrain, in Bahrain Hamilton somehow was able to make things work out for himself in respect to Vettel, Mercedes are not as slick as they might seem.


Well, Mercedes have not shot themselves in the foot nearly as much this year as Ferrari have. That's not necessarily an excuse but they have been able to pull their bacon out of the fire and make the most of it at least a couple of times.

BTW Bottas was put on Mediums on his first pit stop but when he got a puncture in the collision with Max, Merc put him on the hards. He finished the race on those.

_________________
Mission WinLater


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:59 pm
Posts: 5271
Johnson wrote:
Just because he wasn't penalised doesn't mean anything. Maybe because Charlie Whiting wasn't there and they aren't so on the ball. Maybe what happened with Verstappen changed there application of the rules. He dropped 7 seconds to Hamilton who we know was not speeding and likely driving the delta. Given that Max and Vettel were right behind him, he held them both up by approximately 7 seconds.

There are no ifs, buts or maybes, he drove unneccesarily slowly. He got away with it though, lucky boy.

Mercedes made an error today, if they wanted a 1-2 they needed to run the cars 4-5 seconds apart once they realised they could not run away. If there was no SC in this race, Bottas likely would have ended up 3rd too. Because Mercedes would have reacted to Verstappen/Vettel undercut attempt with Hamilton and thus Bottas would have been very vulberable to an undercut from that driver. Mercedes should have learnt this lesson in 2013.

BUT........

Has anyone looked at the lap times? Did Bottas slow significantly, or did Lewis speed up?

(I haven't seen them, or know where to find them! So honestly don't know.)

_________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 31122
shoot999 wrote:
:uhoh: Nasty scene between Hamilton and Vowles post race


https://www.facebook.com/MercedesAMGF1/ ... 504214775/

:lol:

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 3:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 7447
Location: Mumbai, India
pokerman wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
:uhoh: Nasty scene between Hamilton and Vowles post race


https://www.facebook.com/MercedesAMGF1/ ... 504214775/

:lol:


All those who think Hamilton was moaning too much, IMO was justified. Being in 1st place at Monaco circuit is the most important position on the entire calendar. Mercedes usually don't make tactical errors & Hamilton did stretch the medium tyres much more than it was predicted. A pit stop would've meant a 4th place.

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 3:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 7447
Location: Mumbai, India
This could've been very nasty. Surprisingly, this wasn't aired even in the replays.


_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:00 am 
Online

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:50 am
Posts: 1053
Location: UK
UnlikeUday wrote:
This could've been very nasty. Surprisingly, this wasn't aired even in the replays.



Very, very scary luckily the marshals kept their heads, you do wonder whether moving cars and people on the same road surface should be allowed, having said that is there an alternative?

It wouldn't have happened if Leclerc had just pulled over, surely you have to have a ruling that says the moment you start shedding debris on the track you have to stop the car.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:20 am
Posts: 952
minchy wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Just because he wasn't penalised doesn't mean anything. Maybe because Charlie Whiting wasn't there and they aren't so on the ball. Maybe what happened with Verstappen changed there application of the rules. He dropped 7 seconds to Hamilton who we know was not speeding and likely driving the delta. Given that Max and Vettel were right behind him, he held them both up by approximately 7 seconds.

There are no ifs, buts or maybes, he drove unneccesarily slowly. He got away with it though, lucky boy.

Mercedes made an error today, if they wanted a 1-2 they needed to run the cars 4-5 seconds apart once they realised they could not run away. If there was no SC in this race, Bottas likely would have ended up 3rd too. Because Mercedes would have reacted to Verstappen/Vettel undercut attempt with Hamilton and thus Bottas would have been very vulberable to an undercut from that driver. Mercedes should have learnt this lesson in 2013.

BUT........

Has anyone looked at the lap times? Did Bottas slow significantly, or did Lewis speed up?

(I haven't seen them, or know where to find them! So honestly don't know.)


Bottas slowed down, speeding under a VSC/SC is automatically detected by the FIA systems and flagged for penalty. Where as driving too slow isn't as there are reasons you could be driving slowly, such as a damaged car, puncture etc, so its not automatically a penalty. But driving too quickly is automatically a penalty with no excuse or reason to get out of it.

Highly unlikely that Hamilton sped up, especially to the tune of building a 7 second gap. There was also no logic to Hamilton speeding, where there was a clear reason for Bottas to drive slow.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 10065
Location: Ireland
UnlikeUday wrote:
This could've been very nasty. Surprisingly, this wasn't aired even in the replays.


Holy crap! The Monaco marshals are typically the best in the business, crazy to see that happen

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 9:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 25158
Johnson wrote:
minchy wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Just because he wasn't penalised doesn't mean anything. Maybe because Charlie Whiting wasn't there and they aren't so on the ball. Maybe what happened with Verstappen changed there application of the rules. He dropped 7 seconds to Hamilton who we know was not speeding and likely driving the delta. Given that Max and Vettel were right behind him, he held them both up by approximately 7 seconds.

There are no ifs, buts or maybes, he drove unneccesarily slowly. He got away with it though, lucky boy.

Mercedes made an error today, if they wanted a 1-2 they needed to run the cars 4-5 seconds apart once they realised they could not run away. If there was no SC in this race, Bottas likely would have ended up 3rd too. Because Mercedes would have reacted to Verstappen/Vettel undercut attempt with Hamilton and thus Bottas would have been very vulberable to an undercut from that driver. Mercedes should have learnt this lesson in 2013.

BUT........

Has anyone looked at the lap times? Did Bottas slow significantly, or did Lewis speed up?

(I haven't seen them, or know where to find them! So honestly don't know.)


Bottas slowed down, speeding under a VSC/SC is automatically detected by the FIA systems and flagged for penalty. Where as driving too slow isn't as there are reasons you could be driving slowly, such as a damaged car, puncture etc, so its not automatically a penalty. But driving too quickly is automatically a penalty with no excuse or reason to get out of it.

Highly unlikely that Hamilton sped up, especially to the tune of building a 7 second gap. There was also no logic to Hamilton speeding, where there was a clear reason for Bottas to drive slow.

I'm inclined to agree and frankly I'm a bit surprised that there wasn't at least an investigation into it. The SC isn't there to allow drivers to mess about with others' races and I should have thought the authorities would want to stamp out this kind of thing, for exactly the same reason that the leader has to stay within 10 car lengths.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:53 pm
Posts: 1766
Location: Canada
mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
This could've been very nasty. Surprisingly, this wasn't aired even in the replays.


Holy crap! The Monaco marshals are typically the best in the business, crazy to see that happen

Yes, shocking. That can't be allowed to happen. Good heavens that was close to tragedy.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 11:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:20 am
Posts: 952
In the Formula E race last week, the Monaco marshalls were also in the middle of the track at turn 1 when the race director went green, it was crazy. Could have both ended really badly and a reminder to the officials to show caution.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 12:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:17 pm
Posts: 614
Location: illinois
i saw the perez video this morning too, wow, that's a huge mistake.

i think long time fans know monaco isn't usually that exciting, but it used to be a one off in how tight the circuit is. so it was a different challenge and ok to keep racing there. with the addition of more tight street circuits, it doesn't seem smooch of a one off challenge anymore.
word has always been monaco doesn't pay f1 for the race, it's time they invest a little and find a way to change something so there is some corner where these modern cars could pass someone. other than dive bombing at the bottom of the hill


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 5:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am
Posts: 1706
An interesting article.
https://www.racefans.net/2019/05/27/ham ... to-vettel/

It does look like Bottas was just following orders when he was backing up. Was initially told that he hadn't backed off Hamilton enough so surely Mercedes knew that they were not breaking the rules since they told him to back off Hamilton even more. Given that the stewards will have been able to hear or find out all of what was said, they can't have found it to be against the rules. Verstappen also apparently complained about Bottas's speed which is understandable. Yet more for the FIA to hear but it didn't even gen noted. So those saying that they missed it, i just don't think that can be the case. I'm just guessing it won't have been enough to even warrant investigating


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 7:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:31 am
Posts: 1772
UnlikeUday wrote:
This could've been very nasty. Surprisingly, this wasn't aired even in the replays.



Perez should learn how to brake a car.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15020
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
An interesting article.
https://www.racefans.net/2019/05/27/ham ... to-vettel/

It does look like Bottas was just following orders when he was backing up. Was initially told that he hadn't backed off Hamilton enough so surely Mercedes knew that they were not breaking the rules since they told him to back off Hamilton even more. Given that the stewards will have been able to hear or find out all of what was said, they can't have found it to be against the rules. Verstappen also apparently complained about Bottas's speed which is understandable. Yet more for the FIA to hear but it didn't even gen noted. So those saying that they missed it, i just don't think that can be the case. I'm just guessing it won't have been enough to even warrant investigating


How much was it, 6 seconds of slowing? If it's not against the rules but should be. Bunching the field like that basically makes an unsafe release almost inevitable at a tight track like Monaco.


Last edited by mikeyg123 on Tue May 28, 2019 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:42 pm
Posts: 2092


Great photos! 8O

_________________
Top Three Team Champions 2017 (With Jezza13)
Group Pick 'Em 2016 Champion


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 7332
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
An interesting article.
https://www.racefans.net/2019/05/27/ham ... to-vettel/

It does look like Bottas was just following orders when he was backing up. Was initially told that he hadn't backed off Hamilton enough so surely Mercedes knew that they were not breaking the rules since they told him to back off Hamilton even more. Given that the stewards will have been able to hear or find out all of what was said, they can't have found it to be against the rules. Verstappen also apparently complained about Bottas's speed which is understandable. Yet more for the FIA to hear but it didn't even gen noted. So those saying that they missed it, i just don't think that can be the case. I'm just guessing it won't have been enough to even warrant investigating


How much was it, 6 seconds of slowing? If it's not against the rules but should be. Bunching the field like that basically makes an unsafe release almost inevitable at a tight track like Monaco.


I thought you didn't mind racing in the pit lane!!! :D :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 3788
Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
An interesting article.
https://www.racefans.net/2019/05/27/ham ... to-vettel/

It does look like Bottas was just following orders when he was backing up. Was initially told that he hadn't backed off Hamilton enough so surely Mercedes knew that they were not breaking the rules since they told him to back off Hamilton even more. Given that the stewards will have been able to hear or find out all of what was said, they can't have found it to be against the rules. Verstappen also apparently complained about Bottas's speed which is understandable. Yet more for the FIA to hear but it didn't even gen noted. So those saying that they missed it, i just don't think that can be the case. I'm just guessing it won't have been enough to even warrant investigating


How much was it, 6 seconds of slowing? If it's not against the rules but should be. Bunching the field like that basically makes an unsafe release almost inevitable at a tight track like Monaco.


I thought you didn't mind racing in the pit lane!!! :D :D


Bazinga!

_________________
Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. [Lord Acton]
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Option or Prime, sandman1347 and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group