planetf1.com

It is currently Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:58 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 4100
Fiki wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
Thing is, the race was better than it could have been due to Lewis having to drive really really slowly for almost every lap. If that doesn't highlight a problem with this circuit, what would?
How about saying it highlights a problem with the cars? They've made cars, which already are difficult to look out from, even more difficult for narrow tracks by making them unnecessarily wider. And all because they wanted downforce in search of hollow lap/track records.


I agree that the car's don't exactly help the situation, but they can't overtake very much in other categories around Monaco either.

_________________
Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. [Lord Acton]
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:20 am
Posts: 1130
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Johnson wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Johnson wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
i just can not understand the weak 5 second penalty for Verstappen after that realease. Nothing against Verstappen, but that forced Bottas damage and he had to pit again. He already lost 1 place due to an unsafe release and another for having to box due to damage (caused by the unsafe release!?) In the past, even when there was no contact when drivers had an unsafe release, the penalty was huge. It seems pathetic that giovinazzi got a bigger penalty for what he did than this.

This was very unfortunate for Bottas. He looked very solid this weekend and until red Bull messed up his race, Mercedes were certainly going to get a 1 -2 finish.


Bottas is a lucky boy, what he did is usally a penalty and if he didn't back off he would have probably ended up 4th anyway and he ended up 3rd so better than that.

Always a danger in Monaco if you are 1-2, same thing happened to Hamilton in 2013 when he got jumped by Vettel. That day, Hamilton respected the rules and lost out.

You hardly seem to be explaining whatever bottas did being worth a penalty? ..... I don't understand your reasons for him resulting in finishing 4th or 3rd without this.


Under a SC, VSC you are not allowed to deliberately back up. Bottas was 1 second behind Hamilton when the SC deployed, by the time he entered the pits he was about 6-7 seconds behind him.

Bottas significently reduced his speed in Baku last year when the safety car came out before he pitted. if he got no penalty for doing this twice, i don't think you should be implying it was a lucky escape. He got no penalty so obviously wasn't in the wrong. And i can only say he was unlucky as due to this unsafe release, he may have got the place back from the driver that caused it, but still lost out on 2nd due to another car getting by because of him getting damage and having to pit again.


Why would he do that? He was very close to having just enough time to pit and come out ahead of Vettel?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:13 am
Posts: 1921
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Boring race as expected. I think the most annoying part is the driver at lead can crawl to the victory and rest can't do anything about it as there is barely space for 2 cars :uhoh: Same for the midfield battle. Ricciardo and KMag got behind and were stuck in traffic. Sainz got lucky and STR simply followed him all race.

Hamilton moaning was very annoying. Wish Mercedes had asked him to pit. It would be slightly more interesting race as Max would at least had a go and build 5+secs gap and rest had to respond rather than just counting laps.


Mercedes are concerned about race wins and not what the driver wants.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:20 am
Posts: 1130
Rockie wrote:
Johnson wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Johnson wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
i just can not understand the weak 5 second penalty for Verstappen after that realease. Nothing against Verstappen, but that forced Bottas damage and he had to pit again. He already lost 1 place due to an unsafe release and another for having to box due to damage (caused by the unsafe release!?) In the past, even when there was no contact when drivers had an unsafe release, the penalty was huge. It seems pathetic that giovinazzi got a bigger penalty for what he did than this.

This was very unfortunate for Bottas. He looked very solid this weekend and until red Bull messed up his race, Mercedes were certainly going to get a 1 -2 finish.


Bottas is a lucky boy, what he did is usally a penalty and if he didn't back off he would have probably ended up 4th anyway and he ended up 3rd so better than that.

Always a danger in Monaco if you are 1-2, same thing happened to Hamilton in 2013 when he got jumped by Vettel. That day, Hamilton respected the rules and lost out.

You hardly seem to be explaining whatever bottas did being worth a penalty? ..... I don't understand your reasons for him resulting in finishing 4th or 3rd without this.


Under a SC, VSC you are not allowed to deliberately back up. Bottas was 1 second behind Hamilton when the SC deployed, by the time he entered the pits he was about 6-7 seconds behind him.



No such rule exists asides from the delta time you have to drive to.

The only rule is you cant back people up in the pitlane on track no rule against it.


Indeed and that is the rule he broke. He was 1 second behind Hamilton at SC deployment, but entered the pits 5-6 secnds behind him.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am
Posts: 1926
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Johnson wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Bottas is a lucky boy, what he did is usally a penalty and if he didn't back off he would have probably ended up 4th anyway and he ended up 3rd so better than that.

Always a danger in Monaco if you are 1-2, same thing happened to Hamilton in 2013 when he got jumped by Vettel. That day, Hamilton respected the rules and lost out.

You hardly seem to be explaining whatever bottas did being worth a penalty? ..... I don't understand your reasons for him resulting in finishing 4th or 3rd without this.


Under a SC, VSC you are not allowed to deliberately back up. Bottas was 1 second behind Hamilton when the SC deployed, by the time he entered the pits he was about 6-7 seconds behind him.

Bottas significently reduced his speed in Baku last year when the safety car came out before he pitted. if he got no penalty for doing this twice, i don't think you should be implying it was a lucky escape. He got no penalty so obviously wasn't in the wrong. And i can only say he was unlucky as due to this unsafe release, he may have got the place back from the driver that caused it, but still lost out on 2nd due to another car getting by because of him getting damage and having to pit again.


A driver didn't cause it.

And no penalty could put Bottas back ahead of Vettel.

Backing up like that is against the rules whether they chose to enforce it or not. He's gotten away with it twice. Had Red Bull not released Verstappen when they did Max would have lost a place to Vettel because of it. Hardly seems very fair?

Yea, i shoudl't have chosen the words "the driver that caused it" as i know Verstappen wasn't at fault. And you are correct about the other point too. I was mainly stating that Bottas lost out on 2 places due to what Red Bull did. At least the penalty did give him one back.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:03 pm
Posts: 1390
I don't think time penalties are good for on track action or particularly fair (they're very circumstantial; sometimes they make a huge difference and sometimes none at all).

I'd like to see penalty lanes at tracks, so the equivalent of a 5 or 10 second penalty could be applied on track with immediate and obvious consequences. Like a shorter drive through penalty.

_________________
===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶===


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:50 am
Posts: 1322
Location: UK
Rockie wrote:
Herb wrote:
Bacus wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Vettel breaks the Mercedes 1-2!


Incredible driver!



Verstappen broke the 1-2 by puncturing Bottas' tyre.


Same way Leclerc reliability allowed Mercedes win in Bahrain, matters not it's still Hamilton, Vettel and Bottas.


You are right but how long can Ferrari continue to to support their slower driver? Leclerc overtook drivers in the race, Vettel didn't and admits he was just waiting for a mistake. If I were Vettel I would be beginning to get embarrassed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:13 am
Posts: 1921
Johnson wrote:


Indeed and that is the rule he broke. He was 1 second behind Hamilton at SC deployment, but entered the pits 5-6 secnds behind him.


You need to really understand this, the delta is for you to not go above you can crawl around its your business.

If you are the lead car you cant drop 10 car lengths behind the SC.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am
Posts: 1926
Johnson wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Johnson wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Johnson wrote:

Bottas is a lucky boy, what he did is usally a penalty and if he didn't back off he would have probably ended up 4th anyway and he ended up 3rd so better than that.

Always a danger in Monaco if you are 1-2, same thing happened to Hamilton in 2013 when he got jumped by Vettel. That day, Hamilton respected the rules and lost out.

You hardly seem to be explaining whatever bottas did being worth a penalty? ..... I don't understand your reasons for him resulting in finishing 4th or 3rd without this.


Under a SC, VSC you are not allowed to deliberately back up. Bottas was 1 second behind Hamilton when the SC deployed, by the time he entered the pits he was about 6-7 seconds behind him.

Bottas significently reduced his speed in Baku last year when the safety car came out before he pitted. if he got no penalty for doing this twice, i don't think you should be implying it was a lucky escape. He got no penalty so obviously wasn't in the wrong. And i can only say he was unlucky as due to this unsafe release, he may have got the place back from the driver that caused it, but still lost out on 2nd due to another car getting by because of him getting damage and having to pit again.


Why would he do that? He was very close to having just enough time to pit and come out ahead of Vettel?

He did this because the crew were not ready and he was told to slow down. It would be far harder and time consuming for them to get ready and run around the car rather than get ready before Bottas arrived. Bottas looked to time it just right.

If it really is against the rules, why has it not even been noted both times Bottas has done it. Not even the commentators mentioned it this time. In Baku last year, Both DC and Ben Edwards were confused as to why Bottas was going slow, but DC (who is pretty knowledgable about the rules) mentioned nothing about a penalty possibly coming his way. If it isn't even noted, I don't believe Bottas did anything wrong either time.


Last edited by TheGiantHogweed on Sun May 26, 2019 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:39 pm
Posts: 3543
Mercedes are so strong that it took Leclerc, Verstappen and Vettel working together to end the Mercedes 1-2 streak. Leclerc to trigger the safety car, Max to force the Bottas repit and Vettel to take the second place...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:20 am
Posts: 1130
Rockie wrote:
Johnson wrote:


Indeed and that is the rule he broke. He was 1 second behind Hamilton at SC deployment, but entered the pits 5-6 secnds behind him.


You need to really understand this, the delta is for you to not go above you can crawl around its your business.

If you are the lead car you cant drop 10 car lengths behind the SC.


So, if Hamilton and Bottas are 1-2 on a SC restart, Bottas in P2 can give Lewis a free 10 second lead?

If only Mercedes knew, they would have won silverstone last year.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:13 am
Posts: 1921
Option or Prime wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Herb wrote:
Bacus wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Vettel breaks the Mercedes 1-2!


Incredible driver!



Verstappen broke the 1-2 by puncturing Bottas' tyre.


Same way Leclerc reliability allowed Mercedes win in Bahrain, matters not it's still Hamilton, Vettel and Bottas.


You are right but how long can Ferrari continue to to support their slower driver? Leclerc overtook drivers in the race, Vettel didn't and admits he was just waiting for a mistake. If I were Vettel I would be beginning to get embarrassed.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Delusional does not begin to describe the nonsense you put above, yeah will back a driver who put it in the barrier overtaking midfield drivers versus the guy who finished second, I can see why you are the most sort after Team principal in the paddock.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:13 am
Posts: 1921
Johnson wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Johnson wrote:


Indeed and that is the rule he broke. He was 1 second behind Hamilton at SC deployment, but entered the pits 5-6 secnds behind him.


You need to really understand this, the delta is for you to not go above you can crawl around its your business.

If you are the lead car you cant drop 10 car lengths behind the SC.


So, if Hamilton and Bottas are 1-2 on a SC restart, Bottas in P2 can give Lewis a free 10 second lead?

If only Mercedes knew, they would have won silverstone last year.


What you have done here is what is called moving the goalpost, with that I'll end it here.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:20 am
Posts: 1130
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
He did this because the crew were not ready and he was told to slow down. It would be far harder and time consuming for them to get ready and run around the car rather than get ready before Bottas arrived. Bottas looked to time it just right.

If it really is against the rules, why has it not even been noted both times Bottas has done it. Not even the commentators mentioned it this time. In Baku last year, Both DC and Ben Edwards were confused as to why Bottas was going slow, but DC (who is pretty knowledgable about the rules) mentioned nothing about a penalty possibly coming his way. If it isn't even noted, I don't believe Bottas did anything wrong either time.


Firstly, did he do it on track or in the pit lane? Pit lane and pit lane entry is fine, there is no delta.
Secondarly, he was the leader which I am not sure the rule applies too.
Thirdly, doing it by a second or two probably is no problem. Doing it to deliberately allow your team mate to pit ahead of you is not the same.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:20 am
Posts: 1130
Also, Bottas couldn't have slowed that much. His lap was 0.5 quicker than Vettels. Both included the run to the pits under VSC and a pit stop.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... i%20Bottas


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6800
Johnson wrote:
Also, Bottas couldn't have slowed that much. His lap was 0.5 quicker than Vettels. Both included the run to the pits under VSC and a pit stop.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... i%20Bottas

None of it matters anyway. There was never going to be a penalty for Bottas because Hamilton hadn't actually caught the safety car yet.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:02 am
Posts: 989
Location: India
Rockie wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Boring race as expected. I think the most annoying part is the driver at lead can crawl to the victory and rest can't do anything about it as there is barely space for 2 cars :uhoh: Same for the midfield battle. Ricciardo and KMag got behind and were stuck in traffic. Sainz got lucky and STR simply followed him all race.

Hamilton moaning was very annoying. Wish Mercedes had asked him to pit. It would be slightly more interesting race as Max would at least had a go and build 5+secs gap and rest had to respond rather than just counting laps.


Mercedes are concerned about race wins and not what the driver wants.


Hamilton said after the race that he was never going to pit anyways. He is just a drama queen and kept on complaining all the time and this is not the first time he is doing this :uhoh:

_________________
Sir Stirling Moss "Quite frankly, Kimi Raikkonen is the fastest driver in the world"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:20 am
Posts: 1130
sandman1347 wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Also, Bottas couldn't have slowed that much. His lap was 0.5 quicker than Vettels. Both included the run to the pits under VSC and a pit stop.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... i%20Bottas

None of it matters anyway. There was never going to be a penalty for Bottas because Hamilton hadn't actually caught the safety car yet.



I was more seeking clarification of the rules, maybe you are right, it only applies once the drivers have formed up. I am unsure of the current rules, especially since VSC was introduced. But I am sure a rule is in place as a team can fix races by using its number 2 driver to bunch the field up to either favour the number one or ruin the race of the number 1's rivals.

For example, if Bottas had done a massive back up job today. Vettel, Verstappen etc would have ended up behind the drivers who chose not to pit. It would have ruined his own race, but if Hamilton was in a title fight with Vettel it could destory both Vettels and Bottas' races.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:09 pm
Posts: 4408
Location: LONDON...!
pokerman wrote:
I'm guessing that Hamilton will need to look after his tyres, wrong call by Mercedes?

He should never have been put on the medium tyre.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:09 pm
Posts: 4408
Location: LONDON...!
Jezza13 wrote:
5 sec penalty for Verstappen.

What rubbish

The penalty did not fit the crime.

Gio got a 10 second penalty for the second to last corner incident.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am
Posts: 1926
Johnson wrote:
Also, Bottas couldn't have slowed that much. His lap was 0.5 quicker than Vettels. Both included the run to the pits under VSC and a pit stop.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... i%20Bottas

This page is for the British GP......

Just noting for anyone reading this, this is discussing the Azerbaijan grand prix last year when Bottas slowed down before pitting. Not to get confused with this race.

Bottas slowed down when he was within the white line of the pit lane entry. I guess that was still on the main part of the track, but according to the line, it was the entry to the pits and there was no investigation for that. And the stewards are usually very fussy about speeding, going to slow or crossing lines in these areas which convinces me more that Bottas wasn't in the wrong. I recorded this race and every other for that matter for the past few years so that is what I am basing it from.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:09 pm
Posts: 4408
Location: LONDON...!
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
5 second penalty for Verstappen seems a bit lenient given the dangerous nature of the incident?


Should be nothing in my opinion. They are supposed to be racing not waiting for each other in a queue.

So it's alright for someone to get hurt in the pit lane?


I don't know. Is it alright when someone gets hurt in the pitlane during a routine stop?

Come on man!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:09 pm
Posts: 4408
Location: LONDON...!
pokerman wrote:
I wish Hamilton would stop moaning

He has been put into a position that he shouldn't have been.

Also he seems to get more coverage than most.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am
Posts: 1926
Now this makes things interesting:

https://www.racefans.net/2019/05/26/ver ... d-contact/

So it is looking like the penalty was not for an unsafe release. The penalty was for Verstappen hitting Bottas which infact makes a bit more sense. The team still were a bit silly to let him out when he did, but Bottas moved right and still got hit by Verstappen and by the look of it, not just once. He has also got 2 penalty points. So both the 5 second penalty and the 2 penalty points for Verstappen are looking to be because of his own actions and not because of the team unsafe release. Though in a way that resulted in them happening.

To add on to this, I thought Verstappen was totally idiotic at the end of the race. 2 laps to go, and he just couldn't have built up enough of a gap to beat Bottas with the penalty, but he takes a risk of knocking himself out of the race anyway. That was so close to being the end of his race and possibly Hamilton's. People say his pace was excellent. I can't disagree there, but 2 moments of his race were very clumsy, especially in the final stages where what he did was a totally pointless attempt even if it worked.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6800
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Now this makes things interesting:

https://www.racefans.net/2019/05/26/ver ... d-contact/

So it is looking like the penalty was not for an unsafe release. The penalty was for Verstappen hitting Bottas which infact makes a bit more sense. The team still were a bit silly to let him out when he did, but Bottas moved right and still got hit by Verstappen and by the look of it, not just once. He has also got 2 penalty points. So both the 5 second penalty and the 2 penalty points for Verstappen are looking to be because of his own actions and not because of the team unsafe release. Though in a way that resulted in them happening.

The funny thing is; he didn't need to be that aggressive there. You can run side by side there and Max was actually marginally ahead and could have been on the power before Valteri when the lanes bottleneck. 2nd place was his, he didn't need to be so overly aggressive.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 9:04 pm
Posts: 2058
Johnson wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Johnson wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
i just can not understand the weak 5 second penalty for Verstappen after that realease. Nothing against Verstappen, but that forced Bottas damage and he had to pit again. He already lost 1 place due to an unsafe release and another for having to box due to damage (caused by the unsafe release!?) In the past, even when there was no contact when drivers had an unsafe release, the penalty was huge. It seems pathetic that giovinazzi got a bigger penalty for what he did than this.

This was very unfortunate for Bottas. He looked very solid this weekend and until red Bull messed up his race, Mercedes were certainly going to get a 1 -2 finish.


Bottas is a lucky boy, what he did is usally a penalty and if he didn't back off he would have probably ended up 4th anyway and he ended up 3rd so better than that.

Always a danger in Monaco if you are 1-2, same thing happened to Hamilton in 2013 when he got jumped by Vettel. That day, Hamilton respected the rules and lost out.

You hardly seem to be explaining whatever bottas did being worth a penalty? ..... I don't understand your reasons for him resulting in finishing 4th or 3rd without this.


Under a SC, VSC you are not allowed to deliberately back up. Bottas was 1 second behind Hamilton when the SC deployed, by the time he entered the pits he was about 6-7 seconds behind him.


I don't recall such rule.

Kimi did it as well when he was behind Fernando in Australia 2014 and I don't recall a penalty (nor investigation) for him.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:23 am
Posts: 2917
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Boring race as expected. I think the most annoying part is the driver at lead can crawl to the victory and rest can't do anything about it as there is barely space for 2 cars :uhoh: Same for the midfield battle. Ricciardo and KMag got behind and were stuck in traffic. Sainz got lucky and STR simply followed him all race.

Hamilton moaning was very annoying. Wish Mercedes had asked him to pit. It would be slightly more interesting race as Max would at least had a go and build 5+secs gap and rest had to respond rather than just counting laps.


Mercedes are concerned about race wins and not what the driver wants.


Hamilton said after the race that he was never going to pit anyways. He is just a drama queen and kept on complaining all the time and this is not the first time he is doing this :uhoh:


Toto said that was Hamilton's safety valve that allows him to keep his concentration. Rosberg said the same. Maybe they should stop him doing it as it might upset the sensibilities of some in the team?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:20 am
Posts: 1130
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Also, Bottas couldn't have slowed that much. His lap was 0.5 quicker than Vettels. Both included the run to the pits under VSC and a pit stop.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... i%20Bottas

This page is for the British GP......

Just noting for anyone reading this, this is discussing the Azerbaijan grand prix last year when Bottas slowed down before pitting. Not to get confused with this race.

Bottas slowed down when he was within the white line of the pit lane entry. I guess that was still on the main part of the track, but according to the line, it was the entry to the pits and there was no investigation for that. And the stewards are usually very fussy about speeding, going to slow or crossing lines in these areas which convinces me more that Bottas wasn't in the wrong. I recorded this race and every other for that matter for the past few years so that is what I am basing it from.


Sorry, my error, wrong link.

Ah Bottas was inside the pit lane white lines when he slowed down at Baku 2018. That is not part of the race track, that is the pits. Hence why Alonso was able to pass Massa in China 2010 under the SC in the pit lane entry, before the pit lane speed limit line.

If he slowed there today, Verstappen would have overtaken him. Today, he did it on track. Baku has no relevance to today as firstly it was in the pits and secondarly he didn't deliberately slow another driver behind him in Baku.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 7859
Location: Mumbai, India
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Boring race as expected. I think the most annoying part is the driver at lead can crawl to the victory and rest can't do anything about it as there is barely space for 2 cars :uhoh: Same for the midfield battle. Ricciardo and KMag got behind and were stuck in traffic. Sainz got lucky and STR simply followed him all race.

Hamilton moaning was very annoying. Wish Mercedes had asked him to pit. It would be slightly more interesting race as Max would at least had a go and build 5+secs gap and rest had to respond rather than just counting laps.


Mercedes are concerned about race wins and not what the driver wants.


Hamilton said after the race that he was never going to pit anyways. He is just a drama queen and kept on complaining all the time and this is not the first time he is doing this :uhoh:


I think any driver in his place would do because not only he had to exceed the projected life of the medium tyres, he had Max behind him as well who will always be eager to pounce.

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:09 pm
Posts: 4408
Location: LONDON...!
Mercedes are very lucky as they really messed up putting Hamilton on the medium tyres with 68 laps left. This was further evident with JAmes Vowels coming on the radio saying to Lewis "You can do this"

The 5s penalty for Verstappen was far to lenient and sets a bad precedent imo considering Gio got a 10s penalty for the 2nd to last corner incident. Not only was it an unsafe release Bottas had to pit again due to a puncture.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 7859
Location: Mumbai, India
Checo had a near miss with 2 marshals when exiting the pitlane.

Image
Source - https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... .18.51.jpg

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6800
Clarky wrote:
Mercedes are very lucky as they really messed up putting Hamilton on the medium tyres with 68 laps left. This was further evident with JAmes Vowels coming on the radio saying to Lewis "You can do this"

The 5s penalty for Verstappen was far to lenient and sets a bad precedent imo considering Gio got a 10s penalty for the 2nd to last corner incident. Not only was it an unsafe release Bottas had to pit again due to a puncture.

I struggle to understand what they were thinking there. There isn't much pace difference between the Medium and the Hard but the life is much longer in the Hard. It was a no-brainer with such an early stop.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 7859
Location: Mumbai, India
Tyre stints:

Image
Source - www.imgur.com

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6800
Did anyone see what happened to Ricciardo? He was in 5th early in the race but somehow he dropped down to 12th after the stops and never recovered. What happened there?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 7859
Location: Mumbai, India
sandman1347 wrote:
Clarky wrote:
Mercedes are very lucky as they really messed up putting Hamilton on the medium tyres with 68 laps left. This was further evident with JAmes Vowels coming on the radio saying to Lewis "You can do this"

The 5s penalty for Verstappen was far to lenient and sets a bad precedent imo considering Gio got a 10s penalty for the 2nd to last corner incident. Not only was it an unsafe release Bottas had to pit again due to a puncture.

I struggle to understand what they were thinking there. There isn't much pace difference between the Medium and the Hard but the life is much longer in the Hard. It was a no-brainer with such an early stop.


At the time they put mediums on Hamilton, I believe most teams were assuming it would start drizzling around mid of the race but because it didn't ran, the medium tyre decision became close to a bad deal.

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:23 am
Posts: 2917
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tyre stints:

Image
Source - http://www.imgur.com



:thumbup: Sky said some other drivers were moaning about being put on the mediums during the safety car. I wondered who it was.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 7:11 pm
Posts: 767
shoot999 wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Boring race as expected. I think the most annoying part is the driver at lead can crawl to the victory and rest can't do anything about it as there is barely space for 2 cars :uhoh: Same for the midfield battle. Ricciardo and KMag got behind and were stuck in traffic. Sainz got lucky and STR simply followed him all race.

Hamilton moaning was very annoying. Wish Mercedes had asked him to pit. It would be slightly more interesting race as Max would at least had a go and build 5+secs gap and rest had to respond rather than just counting laps.


Mercedes are concerned about race wins and not what the driver wants.


Hamilton said after the race that he was never going to pit anyways. He is just a drama queen and kept on complaining all the time and this is not the first time he is doing this :uhoh:


Toto said that was Hamilton's safety valve that allows him to keep his concentration. Rosberg said the same. Maybe they should stop him doing it as it might upset the sensibilities of some in the team?


I hate to hear it but it's just Lewis venting so he doesn't blow a gasket. He actually drove incredibly well not to be losing even more time. Great race from him.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am
Posts: 1926
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tyre stints:

Image
Source - http://www.imgur.com

This is why i found Grosjean so impressive. His stint is quite possibly more impressive than Hamilton's.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 5:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:20 am
Posts: 1130
This is the rule Bottas potentially broke, rules 30.5 (SC) and 40.3 (VSC)

"No car may be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed
potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person at any time whilst the VSC
procedure is in use. This will apply whether any such car is being driven on the track, the pit
entry or the pit lane.
"

Bottas backed up and dropped about 7 seconds to Hamilton. He was 1.1 behind Hamilton before the SC was deployed, when he crossed the start finish line with both having just made a pit stop, he was then 8.3 behind.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... i%20Bottas


Last edited by Johnson on Sun May 26, 2019 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 5:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:14 am
Posts: 1090
Location: Stratford
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Johnson wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Johnson wrote:

Bottas is a lucky boy, what he did is usally a penalty and if he didn't back off he would have probably ended up 4th anyway and he ended up 3rd so better than that.

Always a danger in Monaco if you are 1-2, same thing happened to Hamilton in 2013 when he got jumped by Vettel. That day, Hamilton respected the rules and lost out.

You hardly seem to be explaining whatever bottas did being worth a penalty? ..... I don't understand your reasons for him resulting in finishing 4th or 3rd without this.


Under a SC, VSC you are not allowed to deliberately back up. Bottas was 1 second behind Hamilton when the SC deployed, by the time he entered the pits he was about 6-7 seconds behind him.



No such rule exists asides from the delta time you have to drive to.

The only rule is you cant back people up in the pitlane on track no rule against it.

Yea good point. Hamilton got a penalty one time in Bahrain because he held Ricciardo up by going too slow in the actual pit lane. I didn't think there was anothign against drivers going slow before it during the VSC or SC.


Didn't Vettel get a penalty for doing similar in Hungary 2010?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Liket and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group