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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:21 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Just throw a VSC and close the pitlane. Job done.

Is the problem here that it's deemed that Hamilton won the race because of a safety car?


Nope, but if it makes you feel better, I'll say yes.

Yeah, I agree, what makes Poker think that this was what was deemed? God knows

So I ask the same question what was so different about this SC?

I'll ask you back, why was it deemed that the fuss is because Hamilton won?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:24 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well of all the countless SC's we have had over the years I have to ask myself why now specifically are people upset about a race being corrupted?


My gawd, poker. This is not the first time there has been discussion and debate about the timing or necessity of a Safety Car in here. It has happened often....Lewis or no Lewis. Why do you have to do this kind of Hamilton victim stuff yet again?

You basically just want to shut down what I'm saying, point to me the last time a group of people were asking for a change to the SC rules like closing the pit lane, something I mooted for the VSC 2 years ago but got no support, why the sudden change of heart?

You have to ask the posters why people have had a change of heart. and SC has been a sore point for years, every since the VSC has been introduced the SC's use has been questioned. Personally I do not want to see the SC come out for every event, bunch the cars NASA style wiping out leads and make an artificial restart. I also think you got Fiki's comments completely misunderstood

I agree entirely, for things that can be dealt with off the track why did they throw the SC, a SC should be a last resort, we should endeavour not to corrupt a race, in this respect the VSC works fine apart from being able to pit which is banned in F2 but curiously not in F1, but this is stuff I was saying 2 years ago and was deemed not to be relevant but all of a sudden for some reason it now is relevant?

Regarding Fiki he explained himself again and I acknowledged that I understood what he meant.

I don't remember the conversation from two years ago. The VSC is barely 4 years old as a system, I guess it will need some refining before it is the perfect solution.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:30 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Is the problem here that it's deemed that Hamilton won the race because of a safety car?


Nope, but if it makes you feel better, I'll say yes.

Yeah, I agree, what makes Poker think that this was what was deemed? God knows

So I ask the same question what was so different about this SC?

I'll ask you back, why was it deemed that the fuss is because Hamilton won?

Because I can't understand any other reason, and that's why I ask if not that then why was this SC any different from any other and I repeat a driver has lost a race before because of a SC.

To go forward from that it's not necessarily a case of anyone not liking Hamilton it could be a case of wanting any other driver than Hamilton winning because he's winning too much and they want change or they want the title race to be closer.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:36 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
My gawd, poker. This is not the first time there has been discussion and debate about the timing or necessity of a Safety Car in here. It has happened often....Lewis or no Lewis. Why do you have to do this kind of Hamilton victim stuff yet again?

You basically just want to shut down what I'm saying, point to me the last time a group of people were asking for a change to the SC rules like closing the pit lane, something I mooted for the VSC 2 years ago but got no support, why the sudden change of heart?

You have to ask the posters why people have had a change of heart. and SC has been a sore point for years, every since the VSC has been introduced the SC's use has been questioned. Personally I do not want to see the SC come out for every event, bunch the cars NASA style wiping out leads and make an artificial restart. I also think you got Fiki's comments completely misunderstood

I agree entirely, for things that can be dealt with off the track why did they throw the SC, a SC should be a last resort, we should endeavour not to corrupt a race, in this respect the VSC works fine apart from being able to pit which is banned in F2 but curiously not in F1, but this is stuff I was saying 2 years ago and was deemed not to be relevant but all of a sudden for some reason it now is relevant?

Regarding Fiki he explained himself again and I acknowledged that I understood what he meant.

I don't remember the conversation from two years ago. The VSC is barely 4 years old as a system, I guess it will need some refining before it is the perfect solution.

That would kind of be my point, the incident was so forgettable even though it produced the same outcome as Silverstone so why now the outrage? :)

The only refining it needs is to stop drivers pitting but the powers that be know this because it's already banned in F2, they choose for it to be this way.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:38 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:

Nope, but if it makes you feel better, I'll say yes.

Yeah, I agree, what makes Poker think that this was what was deemed? God knows

So I ask the same question what was so different about this SC?

I'll ask you back, why was it deemed that the fuss is because Hamilton won?

Because I can't understand any other reason, and that's why I ask if not that then why was this SC any different from any other and I repeat a driver has lost a race before because of a SC.

To go forward from that it's not necessarily a case of anyone not liking Hamilton it could be a case of wanting any other driver than Hamilton winning because he's winning too much and they want change or they want the title race to be closer.

Well from that to make the leap about being about Hamilton is just nonsensical, it is a very very broad assumption in my eyes. Especially, as you say, because Hamilton has been the victim of a SC (many drivers have). It just seems like every time we have a conversation about something you tend to twist it in being about Hamilton, when it is not (not always, I can't speak for everyone else).

I agree that one driver winning too much can get tiring, but I'd be very dishonest if I said I don't want him to win more because of that. I was happy when my favourite driver was winning left right and centre. So in my eyes, it is just up to the rest to up their game frankly.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:40 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Yeah, I agree, what makes Poker think that this was what was deemed? God knows

So I ask the same question what was so different about this SC?

I'll ask you back, why was it deemed that the fuss is because Hamilton won?

Because I can't understand any other reason, and that's why I ask if not that then why was this SC any different from any other and I repeat a driver has lost a race before because of a SC.

To go forward from that it's not necessarily a case of anyone not liking Hamilton it could be a case of wanting any other driver than Hamilton winning because he's winning too much and they want change or they want the title race to be closer.

Well from that to make the leap about being about Hamilton is just nonsensical, it is a very very broad assumption in my eyes. Especially, as you say, because Hamilton has been the victim of a SC (many drivers have). It just seems like every time we have a conversation about something you tend to twist it in being about Hamilton, when it is not (not always, I can't speak for everyone else).

I agree that one driver winning too much can get tiring, but I'd be very dishonest if I said I don't want him to win more because of that. I was happy when my favourite driver was winning left right and centre. So in my eyes, it is just up to the rest to up their game frankly.

Many drivers have been the victim of a SC so why now all the outrage?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:43 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
So I ask the same question what was so different about this SC?

I'll ask you back, why was it deemed that the fuss is because Hamilton won?

Because I can't understand any other reason, and that's why I ask if not that then why was this SC any different from any other and I repeat a driver has lost a race before because of a SC.

To go forward from that it's not necessarily a case of anyone not liking Hamilton it could be a case of wanting any other driver than Hamilton winning because he's winning too much and they want change or they want the title race to be closer.

Well from that to make the leap about being about Hamilton is just nonsensical, it is a very very broad assumption in my eyes. Especially, as you say, because Hamilton has been the victim of a SC (many drivers have). It just seems like every time we have a conversation about something you tend to twist it in being about Hamilton, when it is not (not always, I can't speak for everyone else).

I agree that one driver winning too much can get tiring, but I'd be very dishonest if I said I don't want him to win more because of that. I was happy when my favourite driver was winning left right and centre. So in my eyes, it is just up to the rest to up their game frankly.

Many drivers have been the victim of a SC so why now all the outrage?


People are going to be more riled than usual this time as it happened at a time that would cause maximum disruption and effectively ended the best racing I can remember seeing in a very long time.

I've already answered that. It basically ended what was great racing. Not just from Hamilton/Bottas but also Leclerc/Verstappen.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:49 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
So I ask the same question what was so different about this SC?

I'll ask you back, why was it deemed that the fuss is because Hamilton won?

Because I can't understand any other reason, and that's why I ask if not that then why was this SC any different from any other and I repeat a driver has lost a race before because of a SC.

To go forward from that it's not necessarily a case of anyone not liking Hamilton it could be a case of wanting any other driver than Hamilton winning because he's winning too much and they want change or they want the title race to be closer.

Well from that to make the leap about being about Hamilton is just nonsensical, it is a very very broad assumption in my eyes. Especially, as you say, because Hamilton has been the victim of a SC (many drivers have). It just seems like every time we have a conversation about something you tend to twist it in being about Hamilton, when it is not (not always, I can't speak for everyone else).

I agree that one driver winning too much can get tiring, but I'd be very dishonest if I said I don't want him to win more because of that. I was happy when my favourite driver was winning left right and centre. So in my eyes, it is just up to the rest to up their game frankly.

Many drivers have been the victim of a SC so why now all the outrage?

There's no outrage. And if there's a discussion, it is about the SC being needed or if a VSC could do the same job but better, which is what Fiki and mikeyg were originally discussing. As simple as that. It is not about who benefited from it, not about Hamilton winning, not about people getting free pit stops. I think you are maybe confusing this conversation with the "what if" one that talks about Hamilton winning without the SC.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:51 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
I'll ask you back, why was it deemed that the fuss is because Hamilton won?

Because I can't understand any other reason, and that's why I ask if not that then why was this SC any different from any other and I repeat a driver has lost a race before because of a SC.

To go forward from that it's not necessarily a case of anyone not liking Hamilton it could be a case of wanting any other driver than Hamilton winning because he's winning too much and they want change or they want the title race to be closer.

Well from that to make the leap about being about Hamilton is just nonsensical, it is a very very broad assumption in my eyes. Especially, as you say, because Hamilton has been the victim of a SC (many drivers have). It just seems like every time we have a conversation about something you tend to twist it in being about Hamilton, when it is not (not always, I can't speak for everyone else).

I agree that one driver winning too much can get tiring, but I'd be very dishonest if I said I don't want him to win more because of that. I was happy when my favourite driver was winning left right and centre. So in my eyes, it is just up to the rest to up their game frankly.

Many drivers have been the victim of a SC so why now all the outrage?

There's no outrage. And if there's a discussion, it is about the SC being needed or if a VSC could do the same job but better, which is what Fiki and mikeyg were originally discussing. As simple as that. It is not about who benefited from it, not about Hamilton winning, not about people getting free pit stops. I think you are maybe confusing this conversation with the "what if" one that talks about Hamilton winning without the SC.


Exactly. This was never even a discussion about anyone benefiting. Just me and Fiki complaining about the over zealous use of safety car. I thought the VSC should have been used. Especially as the Alfa was cleared before everyone was lined up anyway.

The VSC would actually have benefited Hamilton even more!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:09 pm 
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Indeed, a VSC which Hamilton effectively pitted under gave him a 10 second lead over Bottas.

I was surprised with the channel 4 coverage, Ben Edwards seemed to forgot that as soon as a SC is deployed, the cars go at VSC speed. He wasn’t sure if Hamilton would maintain his lead. It’s the first time I’ve watch channel 4 as I was at the race I watched it after.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:00 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Well from that to make the leap about being about Hamilton is just nonsensical, it is a very very broad assumption in my eyes. Especially, as you say, because Hamilton has been the victim of a SC (many drivers have). It just seems like every time we have a conversation about something you tend to twist it in being about Hamilton, when it is not (not always, I can't speak for everyone else).

I agree that one driver winning too much can get tiring, but I'd be very dishonest if I said I don't want him to win more because of that. I was happy when my favourite driver was winning left right and centre. So in my eyes, it is just up to the rest to up their game frankly.

Many drivers have been the victim of a SC so why now all the outrage?

There's no outrage. And if there's a discussion, it is about the SC being needed or if a VSC could do the same job but better, which is what Fiki and mikeyg were originally discussing. As simple as that. It is not about who benefited from it, not about Hamilton winning, not about people getting free pit stops. I think you are maybe confusing this conversation with the "what if" one that talks about Hamilton winning without the SC.


Exactly. This was never even a discussion about anyone benefiting. Just me and Fiki complaining about the over zealous use of safety car. I thought the VSC should have been used. Especially as the Alfa was cleared before everyone was lined up anyway.

The VSC would actually have benefited Hamilton even more!

A better way to put it would be to say that the VSC would have actually benefited Hamilton; wheres the SC did not have any meaningful impact whatsoever. The safety car gave Hamilton a free pit stop but it also erased an 18 second gap between him and Valteri (roughly the pit delta at Silverstone). A VSC would have preserved more of his actual on track lead after the stop.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:38 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Just throw a VSC and close the pitlane. Job done.

Is the problem here that it's deemed that Hamilton won the race because of a safety car?


Nope, but if it makes you feel better, I'll say yes.

Yeah, I agree, what makes Poker think that this was what was deemed? God knows

So I ask the same question what was so different about this SC?


Nothing is different about this safety car compared to others, nor is this the first time I've thought and said that safety cars are a dreadful and very out of date way of dealing with certain situations, the Silverstone race being one of them. But if you want to put it down to the fact that Hamilton won the race and that's why I'm making this point, go ahead.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:53 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Well from that to make the leap about being about Hamilton is just nonsensical, it is a very very broad assumption in my eyes. Especially, as you say, because Hamilton has been the victim of a SC (many drivers have). It just seems like every time we have a conversation about something you tend to twist it in being about Hamilton, when it is not (not always, I can't speak for everyone else).

I agree that one driver winning too much can get tiring, but I'd be very dishonest if I said I don't want him to win more because of that. I was happy when my favourite driver was winning left right and centre. So in my eyes, it is just up to the rest to up their game frankly.

Many drivers have been the victim of a SC so why now all the outrage?

There's no outrage. And if there's a discussion, it is about the SC being needed or if a VSC could do the same job but better, which is what Fiki and mikeyg were originally discussing. As simple as that. It is not about who benefited from it, not about Hamilton winning, not about people getting free pit stops. I think you are maybe confusing this conversation with the "what if" one that talks about Hamilton winning without the SC.


Exactly. This was never even a discussion about anyone benefiting. Just me and Fiki complaining about the over zealous use of safety car. I thought the VSC should have been used. Especially as the Alfa was cleared before everyone was lined up anyway.

The VSC would actually have benefited Hamilton even more!

A better way to put it would be to say that the VSC would have actually benefited Hamilton; wheres the SC did not have any meaningful impact whatsoever. The safety car gave Hamilton a free pit stop but it also erased an 18 second gap between him and Valteri (roughly the pit delta at Silverstone). A VSC would have preserved more of his actual on track lead after the stop.


Fair enough so seeing as the safety car didn't benefit Hamilton we can surely knock on the head the idea that people are only complaining about the safety car because it benefited Hamilton.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:58 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
There's no outrage. And if there's a discussion, it is about the SC being needed or if a VSC could do the same job but better, which is what Fiki and mikeyg were originally discussing. As simple as that. It is not about who benefited from it, not about Hamilton winning, not about people getting free pit stops. I think you are maybe confusing this conversation with the "what if" one that talks about Hamilton winning without the SC.


Exactly. This was never even a discussion about anyone benefiting. Just me and Fiki complaining about the over zealous use of safety car. I thought the VSC should have been used. Especially as the Alfa was cleared before everyone was lined up anyway.

The VSC would actually have benefited Hamilton even more!

A better way to put it would be to say that the VSC would have actually benefited Hamilton; wheres the SC did not have any meaningful impact whatsoever. The safety car gave Hamilton a free pit stop but it also erased an 18 second gap between him and Valteri (roughly the pit delta at Silverstone). A VSC would have preserved more of his actual on track lead after the stop.


Fair enough so seeing as the safety car didn't benefit Hamilton we can surely knock on the head the idea that people are only complaining about the safety car because it benefited Hamilton.

I'm not involved in that conversation


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:46 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
I'll ask you back, why was it deemed that the fuss is because Hamilton won?

Because I can't understand any other reason, and that's why I ask if not that then why was this SC any different from any other and I repeat a driver has lost a race before because of a SC.

To go forward from that it's not necessarily a case of anyone not liking Hamilton it could be a case of wanting any other driver than Hamilton winning because he's winning too much and they want change or they want the title race to be closer.

Well from that to make the leap about being about Hamilton is just nonsensical, it is a very very broad assumption in my eyes. Especially, as you say, because Hamilton has been the victim of a SC (many drivers have). It just seems like every time we have a conversation about something you tend to twist it in being about Hamilton, when it is not (not always, I can't speak for everyone else).

I agree that one driver winning too much can get tiring, but I'd be very dishonest if I said I don't want him to win more because of that. I was happy when my favourite driver was winning left right and centre. So in my eyes, it is just up to the rest to up their game frankly.

Many drivers have been the victim of a SC so why now all the outrage?


People are going to be more riled than usual this time as it happened at a time that would cause maximum disruption and effectively ended the best racing I can remember seeing in a very long time.

I've already answered that. It basically ended what was great racing. Not just from Hamilton/Bottas but also Leclerc/Verstappen.

You think that there should have not been a SC not even a VSC?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:55 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Well from that to make the leap about being about Hamilton is just nonsensical, it is a very very broad assumption in my eyes. Especially, as you say, because Hamilton has been the victim of a SC (many drivers have). It just seems like every time we have a conversation about something you tend to twist it in being about Hamilton, when it is not (not always, I can't speak for everyone else).

I agree that one driver winning too much can get tiring, but I'd be very dishonest if I said I don't want him to win more because of that. I was happy when my favourite driver was winning left right and centre. So in my eyes, it is just up to the rest to up their game frankly.

Many drivers have been the victim of a SC so why now all the outrage?

There's no outrage. And if there's a discussion, it is about the SC being needed or if a VSC could do the same job but better, which is what Fiki and mikeyg were originally discussing. As simple as that. It is not about who benefited from it, not about Hamilton winning, not about people getting free pit stops. I think you are maybe confusing this conversation with the "what if" one that talks about Hamilton winning without the SC.


Exactly. This was never even a discussion about anyone benefiting. Just me and Fiki complaining about the over zealous use of safety car. I thought the VSC should have been used. Especially as the Alfa was cleared before everyone was lined up anyway.

The VSC would actually have benefited Hamilton even more!

I seem to recall it going into the realms of not having a SC at all whilst a car was beached in the gravel and then on to having the pit lane closed because of the advantage it gave to drivers having not pitted, all of a sudden there is a call for pit lanes to be closed, I don't recall this coming up before and there's been numerous SC's.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:58 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
Indeed, a VSC which Hamilton effectively pitted under gave him a 10 second lead over Bottas.

I was surprised with the channel 4 coverage, Ben Edwards seemed to forgot that as soon as a SC is deployed, the cars go at VSC speed. He wasn’t sure if Hamilton would maintain his lead. It’s the first time I’ve watch channel 4 as I was at the race I watched it after.

Yeah they introduced that with the new VSC rule, in the past Bottas would have not lost his lead when the SC was called.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:07 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Is the problem here that it's deemed that Hamilton won the race because of a safety car?


Nope, but if it makes you feel better, I'll say yes.

Yeah, I agree, what makes Poker think that this was what was deemed? God knows

So I ask the same question what was so different about this SC?


Nothing is different about this safety car compared to others, nor is this the first time I've thought and said that safety cars are a dreadful and very out of date way of dealing with certain situations, the Silverstone race being one of them. But if you want to put it down to the fact that Hamilton won the race and that's why I'm making this point, go ahead.

I'm just trying to understand why this SC in particular triggered so many people?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:26 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Many drivers have been the victim of a SC so why now all the outrage?

There's no outrage. And if there's a discussion, it is about the SC being needed or if a VSC could do the same job but better, which is what Fiki and mikeyg were originally discussing. As simple as that. It is not about who benefited from it, not about Hamilton winning, not about people getting free pit stops. I think you are maybe confusing this conversation with the "what if" one that talks about Hamilton winning without the SC.


Exactly. This was never even a discussion about anyone benefiting. Just me and Fiki complaining about the over zealous use of safety car. I thought the VSC should have been used. Especially as the Alfa was cleared before everyone was lined up anyway.

The VSC would actually have benefited Hamilton even more!

A better way to put it would be to say that the VSC would have actually benefited Hamilton; wheres the SC did not have any meaningful impact whatsoever. The safety car gave Hamilton a free pit stop but it also erased an 18 second gap between him and Valteri (roughly the pit delta at Silverstone). A VSC would have preserved more of his actual on track lead after the stop.


Fair enough so seeing as the safety car didn't benefit Hamilton we can surely knock on the head the idea that people are only complaining about the safety car because it benefited Hamilton.

A VSC would also have corrupted the race, Vettel would have still passed Leclerc and Verstappen, it still ends the Bottas/Hamilton battle which you partly complained that it ruined the race, but it went further than that into saying that the pit lane should be closed, for some reason this SC was different?

Do we not have SC's for cars beached in gravel traps and just leave them there as suggested by Fiki, or trust in the drivers to play nice under yellows and not put any marshals at risk or themselves if there are recovery vehicles involved?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:22 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:

Nope, but if it makes you feel better, I'll say yes.

Yeah, I agree, what makes Poker think that this was what was deemed? God knows

So I ask the same question what was so different about this SC?


Nothing is different about this safety car compared to others, nor is this the first time I've thought and said that safety cars are a dreadful and very out of date way of dealing with certain situations, the Silverstone race being one of them. But if you want to put it down to the fact that Hamilton won the race and that's why I'm making this point, go ahead.

I'm just trying to understand why this SC in particular triggered so many people?


Ah come on Poker - it happens every time the SC might have affected a top runner's race.

A 30 second search brought up this thread from just last year, which has many of the same opinions raised (by many of the same members) as in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14964&hilit=safety+car

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:23 am 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
There's no outrage. And if there's a discussion, it is about the SC being needed or if a VSC could do the same job but better, which is what Fiki and mikeyg were originally discussing. As simple as that. It is not about who benefited from it, not about Hamilton winning, not about people getting free pit stops. I think you are maybe confusing this conversation with the "what if" one that talks about Hamilton winning without the SC.


Exactly. This was never even a discussion about anyone benefiting. Just me and Fiki complaining about the over zealous use of safety car. I thought the VSC should have been used. Especially as the Alfa was cleared before everyone was lined up anyway.

The VSC would actually have benefited Hamilton even more!

A better way to put it would be to say that the VSC would have actually benefited Hamilton; wheres the SC did not have any meaningful impact whatsoever. The safety car gave Hamilton a free pit stop but it also erased an 18 second gap between him and Valteri (roughly the pit delta at Silverstone). A VSC would have preserved more of his actual on track lead after the stop.


Fair enough so seeing as the safety car didn't benefit Hamilton we can surely knock on the head the idea that people are only complaining about the safety car because it benefited Hamilton.

A VSC would also have corrupted the race, Vettel would have still passed Leclerc and Verstappen, it still ends the Bottas/Hamilton battle which you partly complained that it ruined the race, but it went further than that into saying that the pit lane should be closed, for some reason this SC was different?

Do we not have SC's for cars beached in gravel traps and just leave them there as suggested by Fiki, or trust in the drivers to play nice under yellows and not put any marshals at risk or themselves if there are recovery vehicles involved?


The VSC would have been more appropriate for the circumstances. In the future to prevent so many races being corrupted the pitlane could be closed under VSC conditions. The race being corrupted last weekend was particularly annoying as it stopped what was a great period of racing.

That is my entire view on the matter.

Now stop being "triggered" by people making suggestions to improve the sport. You're being ridiculous. Never has so much been made of so little.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:56 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Fiki wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Or just put out a sc/vsc and remove the vehicle for safety...
Wtf...

How is this even a discussion¿?¿?¿?¿?
Because I don't believe counting down laps while banning racing has much to do with safety? (Edit: nor with racing, actually) And because I believe that there is a major difference between MotoGP and F1.


So you think there's no possible danger from just leaving a car in a high speed run off area? Ok, not gonna even bother to debate this tbh your stand point is ridiculous. I'm actually confused as to if I've misinterpreted what you're trying to argue...

They even delay running throw red flags and safety cars for barrier fixes.
Of course there's a measure of danger. My point is more or less in your bottom line; I'm perfectly fine with a red flag if a truly dangerous situation occurs, and barriers need to be repaired. But I don't agree with cancelling the racing for unnecessary retrieval while counting down laps. Either you race, or you don't. If you don't, then don't count down the laps. The race is over X number of laps, and that is what the public have paid to see. Not a conga line for lap after lap.

For me personally I don't understand why the VSC wasn't used, there was no obstruction or debris on the track, as for red flags no one wants to see that and I would be guessing it would actually take longer in that situation to restart a race than a SC?

As for laps lost there was only 4 laps lost so I don't understand the angst.


Don't disagree vsc would probably have sufficed but that's not even Fikis point, he's arguing not to even retrieve cars because if another car hits it when it also goes of it will probably be okay because the cars are safe enough


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:27 am 
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pokerman wrote:
A VSC would also have corrupted the race, Vettel would have still passed Leclerc and Verstappen, it still ends the Bottas/Hamilton battle which you partly complained that it ruined the race, but it went further than that into saying that the pit lane should be closed, for some reason this SC was different?

Do we not have SC's for cars beached in gravel traps and just leave them there as suggested by Fiki, or trust in the drivers to play nice under yellows and not put any marshals at risk or themselves if there are recovery vehicles involved?


No idea why someone would suggest leaving a car at Club. Its in a direct line with the downhill Vale straight; and we have seen vehicles barreling into others at the place before, even under yellows.
And I assume the SC was so that they could create the necessary gap for the recovery vehicle to cross the pit lane without the prospect of a car barreling into it as it entered the pit lane at full chat. I take it they found the necessary gaps before the SC train got formed; which meant the SC was only needed for a short space of time. (I know some series they leave a recovery truck tucked in behind the barrier and others use a side road just before the pit lane line. )
And the marshals are at risk whether you recover the car or not. You don't leave a driver wandering around in a gravel trap. Isn't the norm a medic plus two to recover the driver?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:35 am 
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The problem with closing the pit lane under the VSC is the VSC will often be caused by a collision and involve a car limping back to the pits. I guess they could make the car serve a 10 second stop go before pit work is carried out. Hamilton gained about 11 seconds to Bottas by pitting under the VSC. He was going to come about about 1 second behind but came out 10 ahead.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:53 am 
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shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
A VSC would also have corrupted the race, Vettel would have still passed Leclerc and Verstappen, it still ends the Bottas/Hamilton battle which you partly complained that it ruined the race, but it went further than that into saying that the pit lane should be closed, for some reason this SC was different?

Do we not have SC's for cars beached in gravel traps and just leave them there as suggested by Fiki, or trust in the drivers to play nice under yellows and not put any marshals at risk or themselves if there are recovery vehicles involved?


No idea why someone would suggest leaving a car at Club. Its in a direct line with the downhill Vale straight; and we have seen vehicles barreling into others at the place before, even under yellows.
And I assume the SC was so that they could create the necessary gap for the recovery vehicle to cross the pit lane without the prospect of a car barreling into it as it entered the pit lane at full chat. I take it they found the necessary gaps before the SC train got formed; which meant the SC was only needed for a short space of time. (I know some series they leave a recovery truck tucked in behind the barrier and others use a side road just before the pit lane line. )
And the marshals are at risk whether you recover the car or not. You don't leave a driver wandering around in a gravel trap. Isn't the norm a medic plus two to recover the driver?


Stop using logic


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:18 am 
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Johnson wrote:
The problem with closing the pit lane under the VSC is the VSC will often be caused by a collision and involve a car limping back to the pits. I guess they could make the car serve a 10 second stop go before pit work is carried out. Hamilton gained about 11 seconds to Bottas by pitting under the VSC. He was going to come about about 1 second behind but came out 10 ahead.


Exactly this. Drivers should be able to pit to repair damage but some kind of penalty can be easily applied to make that not something that can be gamed.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:36 am 
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shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
A VSC would also have corrupted the race, Vettel would have still passed Leclerc and Verstappen, it still ends the Bottas/Hamilton battle which you partly complained that it ruined the race, but it went further than that into saying that the pit lane should be closed, for some reason this SC was different?

Do we not have SC's for cars beached in gravel traps and just leave them there as suggested by Fiki, or trust in the drivers to play nice under yellows and not put any marshals at risk or themselves if there are recovery vehicles involved?


No idea why someone would suggest leaving a car at Club. Its in a direct line with the downhill Vale straight; and we have seen vehicles barreling into others at the place before, even under yellows.
That raises an interesting point; if that happens under yellows, in the dry, then surely the FIA isn't strict enough in dealing with unruly drivers?
Edit: I make the point about it happening in the dry because I remember the dangerous situation behind the SC at Brazil 2003, and Bianchi's accident both happened in the wet. And just to make it clear; I don't propose racing only in the dry. I propose to race with respect for yellow flags, which should be no problem in the 21st century.

shoot999 wrote:
And the marshals are at risk whether you recover the car or not. You don't leave a driver wandering around in a gravel trap. Isn't the norm a medic plus two to recover the driver?
The situation is different if a driver has been hurt in an accident; even so my view of simply leaving a stranded car in the kitty litter has nothing to do with extracting a hurt driver. Giovinazzi wasn't hurt, was able to leave his car and get behind the barriers on his own. Any assistance required in getting his bearings could have been offered by a single marshal.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:26 am 
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Fiki wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
A VSC would also have corrupted the race, Vettel would have still passed Leclerc and Verstappen, it still ends the Bottas/Hamilton battle which you partly complained that it ruined the race, but it went further than that into saying that the pit lane should be closed, for some reason this SC was different?

Do we not have SC's for cars beached in gravel traps and just leave them there as suggested by Fiki, or trust in the drivers to play nice under yellows and not put any marshals at risk or themselves if there are recovery vehicles involved?


No idea why someone would suggest leaving a car at Club. Its in a direct line with the downhill Vale straight; and we have seen vehicles barreling into others at the place before, even under yellows.
That raises an interesting point; if that happens under yellows, in the dry, then surely the FIA isn't strict enough in dealing with unruly drivers?
Edit: I make the point about it happening in the dry because I remember the dangerous situation behind the SC at Brazil 2003, and Bianchi's accident both happened in the wet. And just to make it clear; I don't propose racing only in the dry. I propose to race with respect for yellow flags, which should be no problem in the 21st century.

shoot999 wrote:
And the marshals are at risk whether you recover the car or not. You don't leave a driver wandering around in a gravel trap. Isn't the norm a medic plus two to recover the driver?
The situation is different if a driver has been hurt in an accident; even so my view of simply leaving a stranded car in the kitty litter has nothing to do with extracting a hurt driver. Giovinazzi wasn't hurt, was able to leave his car and get behind the barriers on his own. Any assistance required in getting his bearings could have been offered by a single marshal.


I don't think the driver who crashes into the first one does it intentionally. Or that a strict punishment after the event would prevent the event happening in the first place. And I assume as you got yellows waving and have no intention of recovering the car that corner would be yellowed for the rest of the race. So in this particular case we would not have had the pleasure of watching the Vettel/Max or Max/Leclerc battles in Vale or at Club.
And not sure I like this idea of using hindsight to guess whether a driver is injured or dazed before looking to see whether they are OK. Seems to me a lot of people are proposing radical changes based on hindsight over one particular incident. One driver jumps out of his car OK, so in future we don't bother with Medic and Marshals until we know for sure he needs help. How does that work?
And according to some we close the pit but leave it open to some, but not others, and following some sort of investigation we may have time penalties imposed for those that come in? Great idea that, we all love penalties imposed way after the event.

Throwing a SC or VSC for a few laps and then going racing on a clear track; whilst having some drawbacks, seems to me about the best solution.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:11 pm 
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Herb wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Yeah, I agree, what makes Poker think that this was what was deemed? God knows

So I ask the same question what was so different about this SC?


Nothing is different about this safety car compared to others, nor is this the first time I've thought and said that safety cars are a dreadful and very out of date way of dealing with certain situations, the Silverstone race being one of them. But if you want to put it down to the fact that Hamilton won the race and that's why I'm making this point, go ahead.

I'm just trying to understand why this SC in particular triggered so many people?


Ah come on Poker - it happens every time the SC might have affected a top runner's race.

A 30 second search brought up this thread from just last year, which has many of the same opinions raised (by many of the same members) as in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14964&hilit=safety+car

I guess just unfortunate that involved another SC win for Hamilton?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:14 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exactly. This was never even a discussion about anyone benefiting. Just me and Fiki complaining about the over zealous use of safety car. I thought the VSC should have been used. Especially as the Alfa was cleared before everyone was lined up anyway.

The VSC would actually have benefited Hamilton even more!

A better way to put it would be to say that the VSC would have actually benefited Hamilton; wheres the SC did not have any meaningful impact whatsoever. The safety car gave Hamilton a free pit stop but it also erased an 18 second gap between him and Valteri (roughly the pit delta at Silverstone). A VSC would have preserved more of his actual on track lead after the stop.


Fair enough so seeing as the safety car didn't benefit Hamilton we can surely knock on the head the idea that people are only complaining about the safety car because it benefited Hamilton.

A VSC would also have corrupted the race, Vettel would have still passed Leclerc and Verstappen, it still ends the Bottas/Hamilton battle which you partly complained that it ruined the race, but it went further than that into saying that the pit lane should be closed, for some reason this SC was different?

Do we not have SC's for cars beached in gravel traps and just leave them there as suggested by Fiki, or trust in the drivers to play nice under yellows and not put any marshals at risk or themselves if there are recovery vehicles involved?


The VSC would have been more appropriate for the circumstances. In the future to prevent so many races being corrupted the pitlane could be closed under VSC conditions. The race being corrupted last weekend was particularly annoying as it stopped what was a great period of racing.

That is my entire view on the matter.

Now stop being "triggered" by people making suggestions to improve the sport. You're being ridiculous. Never has so much been made of so little.

I suggested exactly the same thing last year after Hamilton lost his win in Australia, were was you and the others for that matter?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:16 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
So you think there's no possible danger from just leaving a car in a high speed run off area? Ok, not gonna even bother to debate this tbh your stand point is ridiculous. I'm actually confused as to if I've misinterpreted what you're trying to argue...

They even delay running throw red flags and safety cars for barrier fixes.
Of course there's a measure of danger. My point is more or less in your bottom line; I'm perfectly fine with a red flag if a truly dangerous situation occurs, and barriers need to be repaired. But I don't agree with cancelling the racing for unnecessary retrieval while counting down laps. Either you race, or you don't. If you don't, then don't count down the laps. The race is over X number of laps, and that is what the public have paid to see. Not a conga line for lap after lap.

For me personally I don't understand why the VSC wasn't used, there was no obstruction or debris on the track, as for red flags no one wants to see that and I would be guessing it would actually take longer in that situation to restart a race than a SC?

As for laps lost there was only 4 laps lost so I don't understand the angst.


Don't disagree vsc would probably have sufficed but that's not even Fikis point, he's arguing not to even retrieve cars because if another car hits it when it also goes of it will probably be okay because the cars are safe enough

Yes I've already addressed that with the question is that deemed by the powers to be as being safe?

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Last edited by pokerman on Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:21 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
A better way to put it would be to say that the VSC would have actually benefited Hamilton; wheres the SC did not have any meaningful impact whatsoever. The safety car gave Hamilton a free pit stop but it also erased an 18 second gap between him and Valteri (roughly the pit delta at Silverstone). A VSC would have preserved more of his actual on track lead after the stop.


Fair enough so seeing as the safety car didn't benefit Hamilton we can surely knock on the head the idea that people are only complaining about the safety car because it benefited Hamilton.

A VSC would also have corrupted the race, Vettel would have still passed Leclerc and Verstappen, it still ends the Bottas/Hamilton battle which you partly complained that it ruined the race, but it went further than that into saying that the pit lane should be closed, for some reason this SC was different?

Do we not have SC's for cars beached in gravel traps and just leave them there as suggested by Fiki, or trust in the drivers to play nice under yellows and not put any marshals at risk or themselves if there are recovery vehicles involved?


The VSC would have been more appropriate for the circumstances. In the future to prevent so many races being corrupted the pitlane could be closed under VSC conditions. The race being corrupted last weekend was particularly annoying as it stopped what was a great period of racing.

That is my entire view on the matter.

Now stop being "triggered" by people making suggestions to improve the sport. You're being ridiculous. Never has so much been made of so little.

I suggested exactly the same thing last year after Hamilton lost his win in Australia, were was you and the others for that matter?

Ah, there it is


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:25 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
A better way to put it would be to say that the VSC would have actually benefited Hamilton; wheres the SC did not have any meaningful impact whatsoever. The safety car gave Hamilton a free pit stop but it also erased an 18 second gap between him and Valteri (roughly the pit delta at Silverstone). A VSC would have preserved more of his actual on track lead after the stop.


Fair enough so seeing as the safety car didn't benefit Hamilton we can surely knock on the head the idea that people are only complaining about the safety car because it benefited Hamilton.

A VSC would also have corrupted the race, Vettel would have still passed Leclerc and Verstappen, it still ends the Bottas/Hamilton battle which you partly complained that it ruined the race, but it went further than that into saying that the pit lane should be closed, for some reason this SC was different?

Do we not have SC's for cars beached in gravel traps and just leave them there as suggested by Fiki, or trust in the drivers to play nice under yellows and not put any marshals at risk or themselves if there are recovery vehicles involved?


The VSC would have been more appropriate for the circumstances. In the future to prevent so many races being corrupted the pitlane could be closed under VSC conditions. The race being corrupted last weekend was particularly annoying as it stopped what was a great period of racing.

That is my entire view on the matter.

Now stop being "triggered" by people making suggestions to improve the sport. You're being ridiculous. Never has so much been made of so little.

I suggested exactly the same thing last year after Hamilton lost his win in Australia, were was you and the others for that matter?


I was saying this -

"Oh come on! Why the safety car.

In other news - The pitlane should be closed under VSC. God knows why they didn't make that change already. "

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14879&start=120

Check it out. I notice you were very vocal about the situation.

Funnily I actually stuck up for you against the exact same false accusations you are now levelling at me if you read down the page you will see.


Last edited by mikeyg123 on Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:27 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
A VSC would also have corrupted the race, Vettel would have still passed Leclerc and Verstappen, it still ends the Bottas/Hamilton battle which you partly complained that it ruined the race, but it went further than that into saying that the pit lane should be closed, for some reason this SC was different?

Do we not have SC's for cars beached in gravel traps and just leave them there as suggested by Fiki, or trust in the drivers to play nice under yellows and not put any marshals at risk or themselves if there are recovery vehicles involved?


No idea why someone would suggest leaving a car at Club. Its in a direct line with the downhill Vale straight; and we have seen vehicles barreling into others at the place before, even under yellows.
And I assume the SC was so that they could create the necessary gap for the recovery vehicle to cross the pit lane without the prospect of a car barreling into it as it entered the pit lane at full chat. I take it they found the necessary gaps before the SC train got formed; which meant the SC was only needed for a short space of time. (I know some series they leave a recovery truck tucked in behind the barrier and others use a side road just before the pit lane line. )
And the marshals are at risk whether you recover the car or not. You don't leave a driver wandering around in a gravel trap. Isn't the norm a medic plus two to recover the driver?

I think the idea is that it's safe for a car to hit a stranded car, however like you say the marshals will always go to attend to the driver and both he and the marshals then are temporarily at risk, at that point the cars need to be slowed down and since the Bianchi fatality they are loath to cover such an incident with waved yellow flags, someone suggested a slow zone which I guess would be like a temporary VSC, but then you're still left with the stranded car, how safe is that although I guess you just use the slow zone whilst you remove it?

Onto the slow zone were there not reasons why a full VSC was better?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:31 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
The problem with closing the pit lane under the VSC is the VSC will often be caused by a collision and involve a car limping back to the pits. I guess they could make the car serve a 10 second stop go before pit work is carried out. Hamilton gained about 11 seconds to Bottas by pitting under the VSC. He was going to come about about 1 second behind but came out 10 ahead.

Yeah I suggested that as well, it's an easy solution however of course it was a SC that came out instead and you can't close the pit lane for a SC because it then penalises the drivers that have not pitted, Indycar style, but then again that could be easily solved by holding the cars for 10 seconds before the tyres are changed or after the tyres are changed.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:39 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Fair enough so seeing as the safety car didn't benefit Hamilton we can surely knock on the head the idea that people are only complaining about the safety car because it benefited Hamilton.

A VSC would also have corrupted the race, Vettel would have still passed Leclerc and Verstappen, it still ends the Bottas/Hamilton battle which you partly complained that it ruined the race, but it went further than that into saying that the pit lane should be closed, for some reason this SC was different?

Do we not have SC's for cars beached in gravel traps and just leave them there as suggested by Fiki, or trust in the drivers to play nice under yellows and not put any marshals at risk or themselves if there are recovery vehicles involved?


The VSC would have been more appropriate for the circumstances. In the future to prevent so many races being corrupted the pitlane could be closed under VSC conditions. The race being corrupted last weekend was particularly annoying as it stopped what was a great period of racing.

That is my entire view on the matter.

Now stop being "triggered" by people making suggestions to improve the sport. You're being ridiculous. Never has so much been made of so little.

I suggested exactly the same thing last year after Hamilton lost his win in Australia, were was you and the others for that matter?

Ah, there it is

Yeah exactly at least I'm being honest, there was no concerns about the fairness about SC's then but a couple of races later there sure was, I don't understand what makes the difference, if something is unfair then it's unfair.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:54 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Fair enough so seeing as the safety car didn't benefit Hamilton we can surely knock on the head the idea that people are only complaining about the safety car because it benefited Hamilton.

A VSC would also have corrupted the race, Vettel would have still passed Leclerc and Verstappen, it still ends the Bottas/Hamilton battle which you partly complained that it ruined the race, but it went further than that into saying that the pit lane should be closed, for some reason this SC was different?

Do we not have SC's for cars beached in gravel traps and just leave them there as suggested by Fiki, or trust in the drivers to play nice under yellows and not put any marshals at risk or themselves if there are recovery vehicles involved?


The VSC would have been more appropriate for the circumstances. In the future to prevent so many races being corrupted the pitlane could be closed under VSC conditions. The race being corrupted last weekend was particularly annoying as it stopped what was a great period of racing.

That is my entire view on the matter.

Now stop being "triggered" by people making suggestions to improve the sport. You're being ridiculous. Never has so much been made of so little.

I suggested exactly the same thing last year after Hamilton lost his win in Australia, were was you and the others for that matter?


I was saying this -

"Oh come on! Why the safety car.

In other news - The pitlane should be closed under VSC. God knows why they didn't make that change already. "

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14879&start=120

Check it out. I notice you were very vocal about the situation.

Funnily I actually stuck up for you against the exact same false accusations you are now levelling at me if you read down the page you will see.

That page doesn't lead to what you said about the pit lane being closed but I take your word for it seeing as like you said you found a post from me dated May 2017 saying that the pit lane should be closed under a VSC, 9 months before Hamilton lost his win in Australia which also nullifies a recent accusation posted against me, poor memory is a curse and yet again you save my bacon. :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 7619
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
A VSC would also have corrupted the race, Vettel would have still passed Leclerc and Verstappen, it still ends the Bottas/Hamilton battle which you partly complained that it ruined the race, but it went further than that into saying that the pit lane should be closed, for some reason this SC was different?

Do we not have SC's for cars beached in gravel traps and just leave them there as suggested by Fiki, or trust in the drivers to play nice under yellows and not put any marshals at risk or themselves if there are recovery vehicles involved?


The VSC would have been more appropriate for the circumstances. In the future to prevent so many races being corrupted the pitlane could be closed under VSC conditions. The race being corrupted last weekend was particularly annoying as it stopped what was a great period of racing.

That is my entire view on the matter.

Now stop being "triggered" by people making suggestions to improve the sport. You're being ridiculous. Never has so much been made of so little.

I suggested exactly the same thing last year after Hamilton lost his win in Australia, were was you and the others for that matter?

Ah, there it is

Yeah exactly at least I'm being honest, there was no concerns about the fairness about SC's then but a couple of races later there sure was, I don't understand what makes the difference, if something is unfair then it's unfair.

No, you are completely wrong, the SC being unfair has been a topic before. Unless you expect everyone to be outraged about SC's at all times, even if it is not used during a race... Would that make you happy? A number of posters have told you already the same thing, yet you keep banging about the SC and Hamilton.

So yeah, at the moment it sounds like someone is butthurt that there was mention of the unnecessary SC use and their favourite driver winning.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15602
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
A VSC would also have corrupted the race, Vettel would have still passed Leclerc and Verstappen, it still ends the Bottas/Hamilton battle which you partly complained that it ruined the race, but it went further than that into saying that the pit lane should be closed, for some reason this SC was different?

Do we not have SC's for cars beached in gravel traps and just leave them there as suggested by Fiki, or trust in the drivers to play nice under yellows and not put any marshals at risk or themselves if there are recovery vehicles involved?


The VSC would have been more appropriate for the circumstances. In the future to prevent so many races being corrupted the pitlane could be closed under VSC conditions. The race being corrupted last weekend was particularly annoying as it stopped what was a great period of racing.

That is my entire view on the matter.

Now stop being "triggered" by people making suggestions to improve the sport. You're being ridiculous. Never has so much been made of so little.

I suggested exactly the same thing last year after Hamilton lost his win in Australia, were was you and the others for that matter?


I was saying this -

"Oh come on! Why the safety car.

In other news - The pitlane should be closed under VSC. God knows why they didn't make that change already. "

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14879&start=120

Check it out. I notice you were very vocal about the situation.

Funnily I actually stuck up for you against the exact same false accusations you are now levelling at me if you read down the page you will see.

That page doesn't lead to what you said about the pit lane being closed but I take your word for it seeing as like you said you found a post from me dated May 2017 saying that the pit lane should be closed under a VSC, 9 months before Hamilton lost his win in Australia which also nullifies a recent accusation posted against me, poor memory is a curse and yet again you save my bacon. :thumbup:


9 posts down.

It's your post actually but you quote me saying about the pitlane from earlier in the thread.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:00 pm
Posts: 184
We've given this thread a day longer than usual, but now we're discussing what was said in previous years, it's really going nowhere.

If anyone has constructive things to say about Safety Cars, please create a new thread.


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