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Driver(s) of the day for me is/are:
1. Lewis Hamilton 17%  17%  [ 24 ]
2. Valtteri Bottas 5%  5%  [ 7 ]
3. Sebastian Vettel 3%  3%  [ 4 ]
4. Charles Leclerc 34%  34%  [ 49 ]
5. Pierre Gasly 6%  6%  [ 8 ]
6. Max Verstappen 11%  11%  [ 16 ]
7. Sergio Perez 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
8. Lance Stroll 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
9. Robert Kubica 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
10. George Russell 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
11. Carlos Sainz 10%  10%  [ 15 ]
12. Lando Norris 3%  3%  [ 4 ]
13. Alexander Albon 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
14. Daniil Kvyat 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
15. Romain Grosjean 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
16. Kevin Magnussen 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
17. Nico Hulkenberg 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
18. Daniel Ricciardo 7%  7%  [ 10 ]
19. Kimi Raikkonen 3%  3%  [ 4 ]
20. Antonio Giovinazzi 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 145
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:33 am 
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Posts: 1857
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Having stopped for another set of Medium tires, how was Valteri ever going to win that race? If you can answer that question then you'll have a valid complaint about the outcome but the bottom line is that you can't. He simply wasn't quick enough to win the race against Lewis. Late in the race, he pit for Softs and did the fastest lap but Lewis was able to beat that time with 30 lap old hard tires!


I almost feel you have missed some things I have said. I don't know why Bottas pitted so early. I don't know where you have found out that it was because he chewed up his tyres. I haven't read that or heard that anywhere but your comment. At the time he pitted, was the furthest ahead of Hamilton that he had been any lap so far. He's been told to push hard so it was almost like he wasn't trying quite as hard a few laps previously. I don't know why he needed to pit. The only way I was thinking Bottas could win was if he stayed out like Hamilton and did the same strategy as him. I'm pretty sure I first mentioned that I thought it was his strategy that messed it up. I am fully aware that being on the strategy he was on would not have resulted in a win. If you can confirm that he actually did chew up his tyres and wanted to pit himself, then i won't argue any further. But given he had slightly extended the gap before he did pit, I don't believe this is the case.

I also made a point which i also think you ignored from another thread. When Bottas had done his final stop, he did very soon do fastest lap. But then what was the point of pushing hard after that? He most certainly won't have got up close to Hamilton, nor expected Hamilton to get this fastest lap off him. So given he knew he won't have been able to win, I don't see why he won't have just been taking it easy after he had done that lap. I will admit that It was amazing that Hamilton got it off him at the end though and i think this will have caught Bottas by surprise. but if Hamilton had done that a couple of laps before, I think Bottas will have reacted and possibly gone a bit quicker.

Not quite the question you want answering but as close as i can get.

Have you never heard of an in-lap? He took everything out of his tires on his in-lap (as you would always do) and that's why he extended his gap a bit on his last lap before changing tires. Even on fresh Medium tires, he wasn't lapping faster than Hamilton; who was on the same tires he started the race on. Hamilton was comfortably staying out on those tires and Bottas was actually approaching Vettel for position and would likely have been held up by him. So it's entirely possible that Hamilton could have just stayed out for another 2-3 laps without the safety car and pit and come out in front with fresher hard tires.

If Bottas had managed to keep his first set of tires alive and do the same strategy as Hamilton, IMO, he would have been overtaken on track. If not before the stops, then after it.
Hamilton has an even larger advantage over him with the hard tires.

You have been spreading this (dis?)information about Bottas not being able to keep his first set of tyres alive across multiple threads now, is it based on any facts or what is your motive here?

Motive? Have you missed the link posted above where Valteri explained that this was his strategy? To do a 2 stop and that he was aiming to stop when he did the whole time? This must be tiresome for you to be so angry about Hamilton winning for years and years now...

I didn't read anywhere that Bottas ruined his tyres like you seem to say. I haven't read anyone else say this. His plan was probably to pit then anyway.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:01 am 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:

I almost feel you have missed some things I have said. I don't know why Bottas pitted so early. I don't know where you have found out that it was because he chewed up his tyres. I haven't read that or heard that anywhere but your comment. At the time he pitted, was the furthest ahead of Hamilton that he had been any lap so far. He's been told to push hard so it was almost like he wasn't trying quite as hard a few laps previously. I don't know why he needed to pit. The only way I was thinking Bottas could win was if he stayed out like Hamilton and did the same strategy as him. I'm pretty sure I first mentioned that I thought it was his strategy that messed it up. I am fully aware that being on the strategy he was on would not have resulted in a win. If you can confirm that he actually did chew up his tyres and wanted to pit himself, then i won't argue any further. But given he had slightly extended the gap before he did pit, I don't believe this is the case.

I also made a point which i also think you ignored from another thread. When Bottas had done his final stop, he did very soon do fastest lap. But then what was the point of pushing hard after that? He most certainly won't have got up close to Hamilton, nor expected Hamilton to get this fastest lap off him. So given he knew he won't have been able to win, I don't see why he won't have just been taking it easy after he had done that lap. I will admit that It was amazing that Hamilton got it off him at the end though and i think this will have caught Bottas by surprise. but if Hamilton had done that a couple of laps before, I think Bottas will have reacted and possibly gone a bit quicker.

Not quite the question you want answering but as close as i can get.

Have you never heard of an in-lap? He took everything out of his tires on his in-lap (as you would always do) and that's why he extended his gap a bit on his last lap before changing tires. Even on fresh Medium tires, he wasn't lapping faster than Hamilton; who was on the same tires he started the race on. Hamilton was comfortably staying out on those tires and Bottas was actually approaching Vettel for position and would likely have been held up by him. So it's entirely possible that Hamilton could have just stayed out for another 2-3 laps without the safety car and pit and come out in front with fresher hard tires.

If Bottas had managed to keep his first set of tires alive and do the same strategy as Hamilton, IMO, he would have been overtaken on track. If not before the stops, then after it.
Hamilton has an even larger advantage over him with the hard tires.

You have been spreading this (dis?)information about Bottas not being able to keep his first set of tyres alive across multiple threads now, is it based on any facts or what is your motive here?

Motive? Have you missed the link posted above where Valteri explained that this was his strategy? To do a 2 stop and that he was aiming to stop when he did the whole time? This must be tiresome for you to be so angry about Hamilton winning for years and years now...

I didn't read anywhere that Bottas ruined his tyres like you seem to say. I haven't read anyone else say this. His plan was probably to pit then anyway.


Mark Hughes race report said he did.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place
2018: 12th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016, 3rd China 2018, 3rd Japan 2018, 2nd Mexico 2018


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:58 am 
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The LeClerc / Verstappen battle was stand-out stuff. Kudos to Hamilton as well, for pulling off what was, in hindsight, a clever strategy that more than likely nullified the SC impact on Bottas.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 9670
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Having stopped for another set of Medium tires, how was Valteri ever going to win that race? If you can answer that question then you'll have a valid complaint about the outcome but the bottom line is that you can't. He simply wasn't quick enough to win the race against Lewis. Late in the race, he pit for Softs and did the fastest lap but Lewis was able to beat that time with 30 lap old hard tires!


I almost feel you have missed some things I have said. I don't know why Bottas pitted so early. I don't know where you have found out that it was because he chewed up his tyres. I haven't read that or heard that anywhere but your comment. At the time he pitted, was the furthest ahead of Hamilton that he had been any lap so far. He's been told to push hard so it was almost like he wasn't trying quite as hard a few laps previously. I don't know why he needed to pit. The only way I was thinking Bottas could win was if he stayed out like Hamilton and did the same strategy as him. I'm pretty sure I first mentioned that I thought it was his strategy that messed it up. I am fully aware that being on the strategy he was on would not have resulted in a win. If you can confirm that he actually did chew up his tyres and wanted to pit himself, then i won't argue any further. But given he had slightly extended the gap before he did pit, I don't believe this is the case.

I also made a point which i also think you ignored from another thread. When Bottas had done his final stop, he did very soon do fastest lap. But then what was the point of pushing hard after that? He most certainly won't have got up close to Hamilton, nor expected Hamilton to get this fastest lap off him. So given he knew he won't have been able to win, I don't see why he won't have just been taking it easy after he had done that lap. I will admit that It was amazing that Hamilton got it off him at the end though and i think this will have caught Bottas by surprise. but if Hamilton had done that a couple of laps before, I think Bottas will have reacted and possibly gone a bit quicker.

Not quite the question you want answering but as close as i can get.

Have you never heard of an in-lap? He took everything out of his tires on his in-lap (as you would always do) and that's why he extended his gap a bit on his last lap before changing tires. Even on fresh Medium tires, he wasn't lapping faster than Hamilton; who was on the same tires he started the race on. Hamilton was comfortably staying out on those tires and Bottas was actually approaching Vettel for position and would likely have been held up by him. So it's entirely possible that Hamilton could have just stayed out for another 2-3 laps without the safety car and pit and come out in front with fresher hard tires.

If Bottas had managed to keep his first set of tires alive and do the same strategy as Hamilton, IMO, he would have been overtaken on track. If not before the stops, then after it.
Hamilton has an even larger advantage over him with the hard tires.

You have been spreading this (dis?)information about Bottas not being able to keep his first set of tyres alive across multiple threads now, is it based on any facts or what is your motive here?

Motive? Have you missed the link posted above where Valteri explained that this was his strategy? To do a 2 stop and that he was aiming to stop when he did the whole time? This must be tiresome for you to be so angry about Hamilton winning for years and years now...

I see you're getting emotional about being called out for your disinformation. His strategy was not to fail at keeping his tyres alive.

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Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:22 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Have you never heard of an in-lap? He took everything out of his tires on his in-lap (as you would always do) and that's why he extended his gap a bit on his last lap before changing tires. Even on fresh Medium tires, he wasn't lapping faster than Hamilton; who was on the same tires he started the race on. Hamilton was comfortably staying out on those tires and Bottas was actually approaching Vettel for position and would likely have been held up by him. So it's entirely possible that Hamilton could have just stayed out for another 2-3 laps without the safety car and pit and come out in front with fresher hard tires.

If Bottas had managed to keep his first set of tires alive and do the same strategy as Hamilton, IMO, he would have been overtaken on track. If not before the stops, then after it.
Hamilton has an even larger advantage over him with the hard tires.

You have been spreading this (dis?)information about Bottas not being able to keep his first set of tyres alive across multiple threads now, is it based on any facts or what is your motive here?

Motive? Have you missed the link posted above where Valteri explained that this was his strategy? To do a 2 stop and that he was aiming to stop when he did the whole time? This must be tiresome for you to be so angry about Hamilton winning for years and years now...

I didn't read anywhere that Bottas ruined his tyres like you seem to say. I haven't read anyone else say this. His plan was probably to pit then anyway.


Mark Hughes race report said he did.

It said he couldn't manage to keep his tyres alive?

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:31 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Have you never heard of an in-lap? He took everything out of his tires on his in-lap (as you would always do) and that's why he extended his gap a bit on his last lap before changing tires. Even on fresh Medium tires, he wasn't lapping faster than Hamilton; who was on the same tires he started the race on. Hamilton was comfortably staying out on those tires and Bottas was actually approaching Vettel for position and would likely have been held up by him. So it's entirely possible that Hamilton could have just stayed out for another 2-3 laps without the safety car and pit and come out in front with fresher hard tires.

If Bottas had managed to keep his first set of tires alive and do the same strategy as Hamilton, IMO, he would have been overtaken on track. If not before the stops, then after it.
Hamilton has an even larger advantage over him with the hard tires.

You have been spreading this (dis?)information about Bottas not being able to keep his first set of tyres alive across multiple threads now, is it based on any facts or what is your motive here?

Motive? Have you missed the link posted above where Valteri explained that this was his strategy? To do a 2 stop and that he was aiming to stop when he did the whole time? This must be tiresome for you to be so angry about Hamilton winning for years and years now...

I see you're getting emotional about being called out for your disinformation. His strategy was not to fail at keeping his tyres alive.

Now I get it, you're just salty (as usual) about another Hamilton win. Even when presented by the fact that Bottas was on a two-stopper from before the race and that he had used up his first set before pitting, you still want to argue.

So I'm assuming the argument is that Bottas was screwed over by strategy? Ok, run with that. Pretty much every race Hamilton wins and you think of some excuse for why it was luck or why he didn't deserve to win, etc.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:32 pm 
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Hamilton, LeClerc and Gasly. I don't know, I liked Gasly being up there and harassing the Ferraris instead of being an also-run, further down that the RB deserves to be. Vote from me as he perked up in this race.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:39 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Have you never heard of an in-lap? He took everything out of his tires on his in-lap (as you would always do) and that's why he extended his gap a bit on his last lap before changing tires. Even on fresh Medium tires, he wasn't lapping faster than Hamilton; who was on the same tires he started the race on. Hamilton was comfortably staying out on those tires and Bottas was actually approaching Vettel for position and would likely have been held up by him. So it's entirely possible that Hamilton could have just stayed out for another 2-3 laps without the safety car and pit and come out in front with fresher hard tires.

If Bottas had managed to keep his first set of tires alive and do the same strategy as Hamilton, IMO, he would have been overtaken on track. If not before the stops, then after it.
Hamilton has an even larger advantage over him with the hard tires.

You have been spreading this (dis?)information about Bottas not being able to keep his first set of tyres alive across multiple threads now, is it based on any facts or what is your motive here?

Motive? Have you missed the link posted above where Valteri explained that this was his strategy? To do a 2 stop and that he was aiming to stop when he did the whole time? This must be tiresome for you to be so angry about Hamilton winning for years and years now...

I see you're getting emotional about being called out for your disinformation. His strategy was not to fail at keeping his tyres alive.

Now I get it, you're just salty (as usual) about another Hamilton win. Even when presented by the fact that Bottas was on a two-stopper from before the race and that he had used up his first set before pitting, you still want to argue.

So I'm assuming the argument is that Bottas was screwed over by strategy? Ok, run with that. Pretty much every race Hamilton wins and you think of some excuse for why it was luck or why he didn't deserve to win, etc.

I'm really not going to sink to your level so I'm out of this discussion. We both know you were being dishonest and that's enough for me.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:25 pm 
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Hamilton, Leclerc and Sainz for me


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:14 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
You have been spreading this (dis?)information about Bottas not being able to keep his first set of tyres alive across multiple threads now, is it based on any facts or what is your motive here?

Motive? Have you missed the link posted above where Valteri explained that this was his strategy? To do a 2 stop and that he was aiming to stop when he did the whole time? This must be tiresome for you to be so angry about Hamilton winning for years and years now...

I see you're getting emotional about being called out for your disinformation. His strategy was not to fail at keeping his tyres alive.

Now I get it, you're just salty (as usual) about another Hamilton win. Even when presented by the fact that Bottas was on a two-stopper from before the race and that he had used up his first set before pitting, you still want to argue.

So I'm assuming the argument is that Bottas was screwed over by strategy? Ok, run with that. Pretty much every race Hamilton wins and you think of some excuse for why it was luck or why he didn't deserve to win, etc.

I'm really not going to sink to your level so I'm out of this discussion. We both know you were being dishonest and that's enough for me.

"We both know"? Now you want to speak for me too? Your behavior would be shocking if it wasn't so consistent with your past behavior. Read the article and then tell me I am being dishonest. Because you don't like what happened, that doesn't mean it didn't happen.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:56 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Motive? Have you missed the link posted above where Valteri explained that this was his strategy? To do a 2 stop and that he was aiming to stop when he did the whole time? This must be tiresome for you to be so angry about Hamilton winning for years and years now...

I see you're getting emotional about being called out for your disinformation. His strategy was not to fail at keeping his tyres alive.

Now I get it, you're just salty (as usual) about another Hamilton win. Even when presented by the fact that Bottas was on a two-stopper from before the race and that he had used up his first set before pitting, you still want to argue.

So I'm assuming the argument is that Bottas was screwed over by strategy? Ok, run with that. Pretty much every race Hamilton wins and you think of some excuse for why it was luck or why he didn't deserve to win, etc.

I'm really not going to sink to your level so I'm out of this discussion. We both know you were being dishonest and that's enough for me.

"We both know"? Now you want to speak for me too? Your behavior would be shocking if it wasn't so consistent with your past behavior. Read the article and then tell me I am being dishonest. Because you don't like what happened, that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I'm calling a time out on this exchange. Neither of you are on topic anymore.


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