nixxxon wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I couldn't say Sainz was soundly beating Kvyat. (unless you meant the past mening last year) If you did then what I'm saying is irreverent.
Although the points show he is beating Kvyat by a long way, that isn't really true. Sainz has made far more mistakes than Kvyat. It's looking like a Kvyat 2016 season in a way. He collected 4 penalty points in 4 races as well as being responsible for 4 retirements and 2 3 place grid penalties which many didn't think was harsh enough. He's had 2 very good races and some other reasonable races. But he's spun and nearly crashed so many times as well as collecting a reprimand in qualifying. Although he got away with them both, he spun and had a light crash at the start of China. he also spun and nearly crashed here at the start of Baku. He is looking very inconsistent.
Kvyat has had 4 retirements. None were his fault and all of his races were at leased reasonable. In Australia, he was far better in the race. So much so, the team had to make Sainz let him past. He then pulled away. Only he then suffered a tyre problem and had to pit. Even then, he didn't finish far behind Sainz. Even their qualifying is 4 - 4 and when you average out all their times put together, Kvyat is only +0.005s behind Sainz.
Points really don't show it but who is better this year? I don't think I can say it is Sainz. But if we base it on everything we have seen from them both in their F1 careers, then yes, Sainz is better. Just can't say that this year.
Sorry, completely disagree.
I dont know where you got all this data but I'd call BS. I follow closely Toro Rosso team. Sainz thrashed Kvyat last year, and this year its mostly the same. Sainz is ahead in like 80% or 85% of the time. No matter if Kvyat retired, his fault or not, Carlos still been faster the vast majority of times. Kvyat has beaten him some times in qualy but thats it. In the race Carlos has outperformed him clearly, with some performances that Kvyat never did. I mean just look at the points that both got together in all races... its 71 to 9.
And Sainz spin in Baku was mostly Kvyat's fault if anything. Kvyat triggered it by running so wide in the first corner and then rejoining like a madman
Kvyat was worse last year. Clearly. Agree there.
This year, Kvyat has had just too much bad luck to make a fair comparison. If I compare the races they have both finished, Sainz hasn't exactly been MUCH better.
Australia, he clearly wans't as good. That was pretty clear. Kvyat was ahead, had to pit on lap 50 because of an issue, then he still finished close behind Sainz.
China, he was good other than that he nearly took himself out in the first lap. Admittedly, an amazing recovery. Kvyat retired pretty much instantly. Can't compare them.
Bahrain, Sainz had a stupid crash. Kvyat didn't have a points finish but he had a good scrap with the drivers further back. That was decent racing from him there.
Russia, Sainz finished ahead of him, but only by about 5 seconds.
Spain, Sainz had a very good race. Kvyat didn't have a good qualifying. Kvyat was 3 seconds behind Sainz on lap 59. That is either an excellent recovery or Sainz hasn't had a great race. I'd say they both did very well, but especially Kvyat. Just clearly not in qualifying. The graphics then disappeared and he got hit by Magnussen which I think cost him a little time. Anyway, what he lost certainly wasn't more than 5 seconds behind again.
Monaco, it was a race where Sainz had a very good drive. Kvyat wasn't looking as strong as Sainz here but he will havce had a points finish but had yet another reliability problem.
Canada, Kvyat qualified ahead and had absolutely rotten luck at the start. asked his team if he could get back in position and got told "copy copy" He then got a penalty. Maybe he should have known but even if he did make a mistake, it was so unlucky that he had that issue. The race, Sainz had another really clumsy incident, worse than the Bahrain one. Kvyat was much better than him this weekend.
Baku, I haven’t seen anyone else blame Kvyat for Sainz spinning, Most people and the commentators on Channel 4 just though Sainz had a massive overreaction. Kvyat qualified ahead again and will have had a decent chance of beating him. But he retired. Again!. t
4 retirements and bad luck in Australia with several decent races is no worse than Sainz's season. Which is a mix of very good and extremely bad. Kvyat had missed the opportunity to get loads of points. If the bad luck had been switched round, Kvyat would almost certainly have more points this year. He hasn't been making mistakes. But ok, Sainz has been getting the points which is what matters. But we just haven't seen them both enough of the time this year to prove who is now better. Sainz is almost having a Kvyat 2016 in terms of accidents. But he is getting the points. But is isn't having any retirements that are stopping him from doing so. Just think what his points would have been like if he'd had mechanical problems in 4 out of 8 races he finished. If he'd had equally reliability to Kvyat as well as his clumsy incidents, I'm not at all sure he would be ahead on points this year.
Just to add, I get a lot of technical data such as the average gap between all their qualifying times on F1 fanatic. Which proves there qualifying different hardly has anything in it out of 8 races. I get all my other data from the fact I have recorded every single race and I flicked through them all before writing this to make sure what I am saying is true. It isn't BS. It is facts.