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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:55 pm 
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MB-BOB wrote:
Zoue wrote:
why is it selfish? I get the arrogance, although to be fair he was answering a question put to him, so one could argue he was merely being candid. But how is it selfish?

Throughout his career, regardless of team, Alonso has never offered an ounce of respect for his teammates. Never. He has always considered himself the #1 driver within his team, even when he wasn't (McLaren 2007).

Never was this selfishness more evident than in China, 2010, during the double-stack pit stop with Ferrari teammate Massa. Alonso couldn't remotely stomach the idea of pitting 2nd behind Massa. So he divebombed Massa at the pit entrance. Luckily there was no immediate pileup and blockage of pit entrance for the whole field. But this pass was demonstrably selfish... recklessly selfish.

Even with his current foray in WEC -- a team driving sport if ever there was one -- you'll notice he will never mention his fellow teammates in interviews. That would put them on the same stage as himself, and of course, that can't happen.

We've discussed this before. People simply have their opinions, which won't change here.


My recollection of China 2010 was that the experience of the previous race (Melbourne) was still fresh in his mind, where he did the team player thing by sitting behind Massa and not pressuring him at all. However, Massa's pace was so slow it ended up costing Alonso a better result. So in China when he could see the same thing about to happen again, it was like "Uh uh, I'm making my own luck"


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:04 pm 
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Ha! As if Hamilton wouldn't have done it to Rosberg. As if Vettel wouldn't have done it to Webber. And that legality of the pitlane overtake has been debated to death on his forum. It was totally legal. If it wasn't he would have been done for it

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:32 pm 
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The mad titan has now won 2/3 of the cups. Time to get earths mightiest racers together to stop him from collecting all 3


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:11 am 
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bradtheboywonder wrote:
The mad titan has now won 2/3 of the cups. Time to get earths mightiest racers together to stop him from collecting all 3

Why?

Remember, other "mightiest" drivers have the same options that Nando has. It is a matter of priorities. I say more power to Alonso for trying it, and I wish him luck in his quest.

oh, and yes I know some of these mighty drivers are bound by contracts, but then those contracts are their choice as well. No question that Alonso's situation is a bit unique, still he has his vision and he is trying to live it... it would be easy for him to just sit around and take his paycheck to the bank... no risk there, either physical risk or to reputation.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:02 am 
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mcdo wrote:
Ha! As if Hamilton wouldn't have done it to Rosberg. As if Vettel wouldn't have done it to Webber. And that legality of the pitlane overtake has been debated to death on his forum. It was totally legal. If it wasn't he would have been done for it


Explain me how overtaking a car with all four wheels outside of the white lines is legal? That rule existed in 2010 IIRC.
Hamilton did it the same race, maybe they didn't want to punish both of them, I don't know. But going by the rules, I don't see how that was legal.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:07 am 
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Blake wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
The mad titan has now won 2/3 of the cups. Time to get earths mightiest racers together to stop him from collecting all 3

Why?

Remember, other "mightiest" drivers have the same options that Nando has. It is a matter of priorities. I say more power to Alonso for trying it, and I wish him luck in his quest.

oh, and yes I know some of these mighty drivers are bound by contracts, but then those contracts are their choice as well. No question that Alonso's situation is a bit unique, still he has his vision and he is trying to live it... it would be easy for him to just sit around and take his paycheck to the bank... no risk there, either physical risk or to reputation.


Who knows what he’ll be capable of once he receives all 3 cups. What kind of devastation he could cause. He might be able to make half of all race cars DNF with a click of his fingers. We can’t allow him to have that power.

There is really only one hope. Montoya winning Le Mans next year and beating the Mad Titan at the triple.


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:37 pm 
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Blake wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
The mad titan has now won 2/3 of the cups. Time to get earths mightiest racers together to stop him from collecting all 3

Why?

Remember, other "mightiest" drivers have the same options that Nando has. It is a matter of priorities. I say more power to Alonso for trying it, and I wish him luck in his quest.

oh, and yes I know some of these mighty drivers are bound by contracts, but then those contracts are their choice as well. No question that Alonso's situation is a bit unique, still he has his vision and he is trying to live it... it would be easy for him to just sit around and take his paycheck to the bank... no risk there, either physical risk or to reputation.

I'm fairly sure he's just making an Infinity Wars pun, and doesn't actually have anything against Alonso. He's making a parallel between Alonso collecting all the parts of the Triple Crown and the villain of the movie collecting all the pieces for his superweapon.

bradtheboywonder wrote:
Who knows what he’ll be capable of once he receives all 3 cups. What kind of devastation he could cause. He might be able to make half of all race cars DNF with a click of his fingers. We can’t allow him to have that power.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:30 pm 
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mds wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Ha! As if Hamilton wouldn't have done it to Rosberg. As if Vettel wouldn't have done it to Webber. And that legality of the pitlane overtake has been debated to death on his forum. It was totally legal. If it wasn't he would have been done for it


Explain me how overtaking a car with all four wheels outside of the white lines is legal? That rule existed in 2010 IIRC.
Hamilton did it the same race, maybe they didn't want to punish both of them, I don't know. But going by the rules, I don't see how that was legal.


White lines on pit lane entry don't define the track limits.


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:33 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
mds wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Ha! As if Hamilton wouldn't have done it to Rosberg. As if Vettel wouldn't have done it to Webber. And that legality of the pitlane overtake has been debated to death on his forum. It was totally legal. If it wasn't he would have been done for it


Explain me how overtaking a car with all four wheels outside of the white lines is legal? That rule existed in 2010 IIRC.
Hamilton did it the same race, maybe they didn't want to punish both of them, I don't know. But going by the rules, I don't see how that was legal.


White lines on pit lane entry don't define the track limits.

Is that actually written into the rules anywhere? I don't know but it doesn't sound right, why then have the white lines at all?


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:52 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
mds wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Ha! As if Hamilton wouldn't have done it to Rosberg. As if Vettel wouldn't have done it to Webber. And that legality of the pitlane overtake has been debated to death on his forum. It was totally legal. If it wasn't he would have been done for it


Explain me how overtaking a car with all four wheels outside of the white lines is legal? That rule existed in 2010 IIRC.
Hamilton did it the same race, maybe they didn't want to punish both of them, I don't know. But going by the rules, I don't see how that was legal.


White lines on pit lane entry don't define the track limits.


In the regulations, the pit entry is considered "a section of the track". The track limits are defined by the white lines, and a driver is considered to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the white lines.

Alonso left the track. It's that simple.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:11 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Blake wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
The mad titan has now won 2/3 of the cups. Time to get earths mightiest racers together to stop him from collecting all 3

Why?

Remember, other "mightiest" drivers have the same options that Nando has. It is a matter of priorities. I say more power to Alonso for trying it, and I wish him luck in his quest.

oh, and yes I know some of these mighty drivers are bound by contracts, but then those contracts are their choice as well. No question that Alonso's situation is a bit unique, still he has his vision and he is trying to live it... it would be easy for him to just sit around and take his paycheck to the bank... no risk there, either physical risk or to reputation.

I'm fairly sure he's just making an Infinity Wars pun, and doesn't actually have anything against Alonso. He's making a parallel between Alonso collecting all the parts of the Triple Crown and the villain of the movie collecting all the pieces for his superweapon.

bradtheboywonder wrote:
Who knows what he’ll be capable of once he receives all 3 cups. What kind of devastation he could cause. He might be able to make half of all race cars DNF with a click of his fingers. We can’t allow him to have that power.

:lol:


Not familiar with the Infinity Wars,but you are probably right.
:blush:

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:18 pm 
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bradtheboywonder wrote:
Blake wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
The mad titan has now won 2/3 of the cups. Time to get earths mightiest racers together to stop him from collecting all 3

Why?

Remember, other "mightiest" drivers have the same options that Nando has. It is a matter of priorities. I say more power to Alonso for trying it, and I wish him luck in his quest.

oh, and yes I know some of these mighty drivers are bound by contracts, but then those contracts are their choice as well. No question that Alonso's situation is a bit unique, still he has his vision and he is trying to live it... it would be easy for him to just sit around and take his paycheck to the bank... no risk there, either physical risk or to reputation.


Who knows what he’ll be capable of once he receives all 3 cups. What kind of devastation he could cause. He might be able to make half of all race cars DNF with a click of his fingers. We can’t allow him to have that power.

There is really only one hope. Montoya winning Le Mans next year and beating the Mad Titan at the triple.


Spot on, I love Alonso. I just saw some similarities between the bad guy in Avengers scouring the universe for these Infinity Stones, and Alonso scouring the world for these elite trophies. No dogs made, and all in jest.


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:01 am 
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bradtheboywonder wrote:
Who knows what he’ll be capable of once he receives all 3 cups.

Well, it will put paid to Alonso's F1 career... He'll have a helmet so big that it will not fit through the halo. :lol:

Oh, Snap... There's something positive about that halo afterall. :]

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:47 am 
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mds wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Ha! As if Hamilton wouldn't have done it to Rosberg. As if Vettel wouldn't have done it to Webber. And that legality of the pitlane overtake has been debated to death on his forum. It was totally legal. If it wasn't he would have been done for it


Explain me how overtaking a car with all four wheels outside of the white lines is legal? That rule existed in 2010 IIRC.
Hamilton did it the same race, maybe they didn't want to punish both of them, I don't know. But going by the rules, I don't see how that was legal.

I dug out my past response from the last time this same debate popped up. I don't think the rule existed in 2010

mcdo wrote:
We know for certain that it was the pit entry line but we don't know if it was also considered to be the edge of the track - that's just an assumption by viewers

And I don't know when crossing the pit entry line became illegal - it certainly wasn't approx. 10 years ago. The earliest example I could dig up was Massa at Brazil 2013 (and it was specifically stated by the Race Director pre-race - I think it's pretty safe to assume this didn't happen at China 2010)
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/statistics/2 ... ex/#inv282

There could be earlier examples, I don't know. For 20 years the big no-no was crossing the pit exit line (thanks Schumacher) but there was never any big deal about the pit entry line until recently

I reckon it was just an unforeseen event that wasn't in the rulebook. Today it is in the rulebook and he'd probably get done for it

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:29 am 
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mcdo wrote:
I dug out my past response from the last time this same debate popped up. I don't think the rule existed in 2010


You seem to be right. I've found the 2010 sporting regulations here: https://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.n ... 6-2010.pdf

What strikes me now, though, is that there doesn't seem to be a catch rule for drivers straightlining corners or even parts of a track - or at least scanning through it I haven't been able to locate it.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:01 pm 
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MB-BOB wrote:
Zoue wrote:
why is it selfish? I get the arrogance, although to be fair he was answering a question put to him, so one could argue he was merely being candid. But how is it selfish?

Throughout his career, regardless of team, Alonso has never offered an ounce of respect for his teammates. Never. He has always considered himself the #1 driver within his team, even when he wasn't (McLaren 2007).

Never was this selfishness more evident than in China, 2010, during the double-stack pit stop with Ferrari teammate Massa. Alonso couldn't remotely stomach the idea of pitting 2nd behind Massa. So he divebombed Massa at the pit entrance. Luckily there was no immediate pileup and blockage of pit entrance for the whole field. But this pass was demonstrably selfish... recklessly selfish.

Even with his current foray in WEC -- a team driving sport if ever there was one -- you'll notice he will never mention his fellow teammates in interviews. That would put them on the same stage as himself, and of course, that can't happen.

We've discussed this before. People simply have their opinions, which won't change here.


Oh dear...

Blatant attempt at rewriting history someone?

Perhaps someone will be bothered to post a long list to the contrary.

As regards China 2010, he was very much in his rights, even more in a year he demonstrated at the end the title was hanging on a couple of points. You sir are quite full of it.

Edit: I see some have already set you straight on this. Shameful hate post you did there...


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:27 pm 
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bradtheboywonder wrote:
Blake wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
The mad titan has now won 2/3 of the cups. Time to get earths mightiest racers together to stop him from collecting all 3

Why?

Remember, other "mightiest" drivers have the same options that Nando has. It is a matter of priorities. I say more power to Alonso for trying it, and I wish him luck in his quest.

oh, and yes I know some of these mighty drivers are bound by contracts, but then those contracts are their choice as well. No question that Alonso's situation is a bit unique, still he has his vision and he is trying to live it... it would be easy for him to just sit around and take his paycheck to the bank... no risk there, either physical risk or to reputation.


Who knows what he’ll be capable of once he receives all 3 cups. What kind of devastation he could cause. He might be able to make half of all race cars DNF with a click of his fingers. We can’t allow him to have that power.

There is really only one hope. Montoya winning Le Mans next year and beating the Mad Titan at the triple.


With my Mr Evil hat on, I have to point out he has already been beaten to the triple by 40 years.
There is a saying, No one remembers the second.

Who was the second man to run sub 4, Second man in space, second man to swim the channel, second to north pole...

Good on him anyway. Not his biggest fan but will be rooting for him in 500 next year


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:10 am 
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moby wrote:
With my Mr Evil hat on, I have to point out he has already been beaten to the triple by 40 years.
There is a saying, No one remembers the second.

Who was the second man to run sub 4, Second man in space, second man to swim the channel, second to north pole...

Good on him anyway. Not his biggest fan but will be rooting for him in 500 next year

He still has the possibility to do something unique - his own version of the Triple Crown, if you will. Graham Hill won the Monaco Grand Prix, the Indy 500 and the 24 Hours of Le Mans, but he was only champion in one of those series. If Alonso becomes F1 champion, WEC champion and IndyCar champion in addition to winning the marquee event of each series, it will be something no one has done before.

Alternatively, as others have pointed out, he could start tackling other famous races around the world, looking to add 'crowns' beyond the traditional three. If he could snag a victory in a famous rally stage for example that would put a serious claim towards being the most versatile driver.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:26 am 
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Exediron wrote:
moby wrote:
With my Mr Evil hat on, I have to point out he has already been beaten to the triple by 40 years.
There is a saying, No one remembers the second.

Who was the second man to run sub 4, Second man in space, second man to swim the channel, second to north pole...

Good on him anyway. Not his biggest fan but will be rooting for him in 500 next year

He still has the possibility to do something unique - his own version of the Triple Crown, if you will. Graham Hill won the Monaco Grand Prix, the Indy 500 and the 24 Hours of Le Mans, but he was only champion in one of those series. If Alonso becomes F1 champion, WEC champion and IndyCar champion in addition to winning the marquee event of each series, it will be something no one has done before.

Alternatively, as others have pointed out, he could start tackling other famous races around the world, looking to add 'crowns' beyond the traditional three. If he could snag a victory in a famous rally stage for example that would put a serious claim towards being the most versatile driver.


I’m a bit of a rookie when it comes to Rally. Is there a Monaco-style iconic rally?

What other tracks would be ‘Crown’ worthy? Bathurst would be on my list. I don’t know what I rate more though, Supercars or 12hr. I think 12hr would be more achievable for Nando.

Do they race Nordschleife, or is that more a Time Trial? That could be a Crown


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:22 am 
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bradtheboywonder wrote:
Do they race Nordschleife, or is that more a Time Trial? That could be a Crown


Well, the WTCR is a FIA series that does the Nordschleife. Quality isn't overly impressive though...

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:19 am 
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bradtheboywonder wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Alternatively, as others have pointed out, he could start tackling other famous races around the world, looking to add 'crowns' beyond the traditional three. If he could snag a victory in a famous rally stage for example that would put a serious claim towards being the most versatile driver.

I’m a bit of a rookie when it comes to Rally. Is there a Monaco-style iconic rally?

I'm not an expert, but I think probably the Dakar Rally would be the closest: it's an iconic event that's been held for some time, and it has huge name recognition. It's also (I believe) held outside any sort of championship series, making it more of a stand-alone event than a typical WRC rally stage, and hence more accessible as a one-off race.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:47 pm 
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Dakar
Daytona 500
Bathurst

Not that I think he'll go for them but they're the biggest I can think of. I think he'll go for the triple crown and triple championships as Exediron mentions and then come back to F1 in 2021 when hopefully there should be more competitive seats.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:40 pm 
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mds wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
Do they race Nordschleife, or is that more a Time Trial? That could be a Crown


Well, the WTCR is a FIA series that does the Nordschleife. Quality isn't overly impressive though...


There is a huge annual 24h race at Nürburgring Nordschleife for sports and touring cars.


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