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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 9:21 am 
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The Brazilian Grand Prix will move to a new purpose-built track in Rio de Janeiro from 2020 according to the country’s president.

Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro announced in a press conference that the move will happen in 2020, stating that a deal had been signed with Rio’s governor Wilson Witzel and mayor Marcelo Crivella for the construction of a new circuit in the western Deodoro district.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/interlago ... -calendar/


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 9:33 am 
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Awful news tbh.

Interlagos - being technically quite simple, a short lap, bumpy and weather changeable probably see's the track levels the field to a degree. It is a natural amphitheatre with great viewing as well.

It is an iconic circuit too that has became very much part of F1's DNA. It probably offers the best ratio of exciting races and drama of the whole F1 calendar.

No doubt it'll be replaced by yet another soulless track, I cannot see this being a good decision and one made for the wrong reasons.

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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 9:38 am 
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Intelagos is special. It has that "je ne sais quoi". No doubt the Tilkedrome replacement will be another sterile monstrosity

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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 9:40 am 
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Fix something that works, why oh why?

It is a good track, apart from the sentimental or historical value, it is a very enjoyable track and has given us many memorable moments, good overtakes, etc. But at least let's see the new track, we should be open to change.

Just another decision based purely on the economics that Bernie imposed. A good track will suffer from the greed of F1, such a shame


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 11:03 am 
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Has Interlagos in recent years not been upgrading the facilities solely for the benefit of the F1?

Seems political rather than sensical.


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 11:27 am 
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No Brazilian driver in F1 so... it's a shame as this is one of the very few tracks that allows drivers to race...


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 11:36 am 
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Mayox wrote:
No Brazilian driver in F1 so... it's a shame as this is one of the very few tracks that allows drivers to race...

So what? That's not the criteria for choosing the tracks on the calendar.


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 11:41 am 
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M44 wrote:
Has Interlagos in recent years not been upgrading the facilities solely for the benefit of the F1?

Seems political rather than sensical.
indeed, quoted from that PF1 article:-

Quote:
The management of F1 has decided to maintain a Grand Prix in Brazil, but Sao Paulo has become impractical because of the event’s public financial support and the debt that exists over there.


So let's use money from a different state to build something brand new instead of using money to rid the debt of another state......

It's like departments of large companies that don't care about other struggling departments.....

Why doesn't anyone in power ever seem to look at the "bigger picture"?


On top of that, as has already been said, Interlagos almost always provides an exciting race :thumbdown:


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:07 pm 
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It's not just finances, according to another report:

Interlagos has become increasingly unsuitable to host races of F1 magnitude as urban sprawl has reached the track perimeters, making access difficult and dangerous as gangs target fans, team personnel and even drivers.

Recent races have done little to promote the image of the country due to fallout from reports of attacks on F1 personnel and the high risk of attending the race weekend as an F1 fan from out of town.


https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/05/09/autodromo-ayrton-senna-to-host-brazilian-grand-prix-in-rio/


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:12 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Mayox wrote:
No Brazilian driver in F1 so... it's a shame as this is one of the very few tracks that allows drivers to race...

So what? That's not the criteria for choosing the tracks on the calendar.

Alonso not being in F1 is one reason for Barcelona not being on the calendar for next year to be replaced by Zandvoort because of a certain driver.

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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:14 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
It's not just finances, according to another report:

Interlagos has become increasingly unsuitable to host races of F1 magnitude as urban sprawl has reached the track perimeters, making access difficult and dangerous as gangs target fans, team personnel and even drivers.

Recent races have done little to promote the image of the country due to fallout from reports of attacks on F1 personnel and the high risk of attending the race weekend as an F1 fan from out of town.


https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/05/09/autodromo-ayrton-senna-to-host-brazilian-grand-prix-in-rio/

Yeah and this has been happening for a fair few years, it's more surprising that they've managed to keep the race in recent years.

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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:15 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
It's not just finances, according to another report:

Interlagos has become increasingly unsuitable to host races of F1 magnitude as urban sprawl has reached the track perimeters, making access difficult and dangerous as gangs target fans, team personnel and even drivers.

Recent races have done little to promote the image of the country due to fallout from reports of attacks on F1 personnel and the high risk of attending the race weekend as an F1 fan from out of town.


https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/05/09/autodromo-ayrton-senna-to-host-brazilian-grand-prix-in-rio/
Yes, there is that too. I did think about mentioning it in my post, but got caught up in the politics and finances etc.

But you're right, the teams have been targets a number of times in Sao Paolo. I love watching the Brazilian GP on TV, but it's not the sort of place I'd want to be wandering around that's for sure.....

*edit* and I survived the Novichok attack in my home town last year :] :lol: ;)


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:23 pm 
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Winners of the Brazilian GP at Interlagos include: Carlos Reutemann, Emerson Fittipaldi, Carlos Pace, Niki Lauda, Jacques Laffite, Rene Arnoux, Alan Prost, Ayrton Senna, Michael Schumacher, Damon Hill, Jacques Villeneuve, Mika Häkkinen, David Coulthard, Giancarlo Fischicella, JP Montoya, Kimi Raikkonen, Felipe Massa, Mark Weber, Jenson Button, Nico Rosberg, Sebastian Vettel, and Lewis Hamilton.

Interlagos does have it's problems as does the neighborhood around the track, but we will be losing a lot of F1 history for another sterile track that requires DRS to overtake.

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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:40 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Mayox wrote:
No Brazilian driver in F1 so... it's a shame as this is one of the very few tracks that allows drivers to race...

So what? That's not the criteria for choosing the tracks on the calendar.


You serious here? :) F1 is a business...


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:47 pm 
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Mayox wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Mayox wrote:
No Brazilian driver in F1 so... it's a shame as this is one of the very few tracks that allows drivers to race...

So what? That's not the criteria for choosing the tracks on the calendar.


You serious here? :) F1 is a business...

It is, but drivers come and go. I don't think tracks are added to the calendar because of who is driving. We have Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Malaysia, Chia, Baku etc and none of those have driver representation


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 1:00 pm 
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Mayox wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Mayox wrote:
No Brazilian driver in F1 so... it's a shame as this is one of the very few tracks that allows drivers to race...

So what? That's not the criteria for choosing the tracks on the calendar.


You serious here? :) F1 is a business...

Yeah, that's why they dropped Spa after Boutsen left, no real interest in that cr*ppy track. Or why they keep Hungaroring, to please the fans of the multiple Hungarian F1 drivers...

It is a business, but the track selection is not down to the drivers. Unless Petrov was such a force in F1 that warranted a Russian GP.


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 1:00 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Mayox wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Mayox wrote:
No Brazilian driver in F1 so... it's a shame as this is one of the very few tracks that allows drivers to race...

So what? That's not the criteria for choosing the tracks on the calendar.


You serious here? :) F1 is a business...

It is, but drivers come and go. I don't think tracks are added to the calendar because of who is driving. We have Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Malaysia, Chia, Baku etc and none of those have driver representation


Nor spectators...

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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 1:02 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Mayox wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Mayox wrote:
No Brazilian driver in F1 so... it's a shame as this is one of the very few tracks that allows drivers to race...

So what? That's not the criteria for choosing the tracks on the calendar.


You serious here? :) F1 is a business...

It is, but drivers come and go. I don't think tracks are added to the calendar because of who is driving. We have Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Malaysia, Chia, Baku etc and none of those have driver representation


There are no drivers from Chia??? We'll have to rememdy that. If we can have a Chia Brittney then by gum we can have a Chia F1 driver.

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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 1:04 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Mayox wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Mayox wrote:
No Brazilian driver in F1 so... it's a shame as this is one of the very few tracks that allows drivers to race...

So what? That's not the criteria for choosing the tracks on the calendar.


You serious here? :) F1 is a business...

It is, but drivers come and go. I don't think tracks are added to the calendar because of who is driving. We have Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Malaysia, Chia, Baku etc and none of those have driver representation


The rule is simple - how much money F1 can make over the race weekend. Why do you think Zandvoort will be in calendar next year? It's a boring and sh*** track... but there is quite a lot of orange in the stands in every GP :)


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 1:12 pm 
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SteveW wrote:
Zoue wrote:
It's not just finances, according to another report:

Interlagos has become increasingly unsuitable to host races of F1 magnitude as urban sprawl has reached the track perimeters, making access difficult and dangerous as gangs target fans, team personnel and even drivers.

Recent races have done little to promote the image of the country due to fallout from reports of attacks on F1 personnel and the high risk of attending the race weekend as an F1 fan from out of town.


https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/05/09/autodromo-ayrton-senna-to-host-brazilian-grand-prix-in-rio/
Yes, there is that too. I did think about mentioning it in my post, but got caught up in the politics and finances etc.

But you're right, the teams have been targets a number of times in Sao Paolo. I love watching the Brazilian GP on TV, but it's not the sort of place I'd want to be wandering around that's for sure.....

*edit* and I survived the Novichok attack in my home town last year :] :lol: ;)


We all know Rio is a safer place cause Brazilian gangs live and work only around Interlagos track...
The fact that Bolsonaro was the deputy of Rio before being the head of Brazil has nothing to do with the move.

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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 1:12 pm 
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Mayox wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Mayox wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Mayox wrote:
No Brazilian driver in F1 so... it's a shame as this is one of the very few tracks that allows drivers to race...

So what? That's not the criteria for choosing the tracks on the calendar.


You serious here? :) F1 is a business...

It is, but drivers come and go. I don't think tracks are added to the calendar because of who is driving. We have Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Malaysia, Chia, Baku etc and none of those have driver representation


The rule is simple - how much money F1 can make over the race weekend. Why do you think Zandvoort will be in calendar next year? It's a boring and sh*** track... but there is quite a lot of orange in the stands in every GP :)

But there are enough examples of tracks around the world without driver representation so I don't think you can make the link between the two. There are a number of reasons why countries host a GP. Finance plays a part, of course, but sometimes it's prestige, too. Besides which, this is all kind of redundant as Brazil isn't losing their race anyway - it's just being moved to a new track in Rio. Despite there being no Brazilian drivers


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 1:13 pm 
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Harpo wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Mayox wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Mayox wrote:
No Brazilian driver in F1 so... it's a shame as this is one of the very few tracks that allows drivers to race...

So what? That's not the criteria for choosing the tracks on the calendar.


You serious here? :) F1 is a business...

It is, but drivers come and go. I don't think tracks are added to the calendar because of who is driving. We have Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Malaysia, Chia, Baku etc and none of those have driver representation


Nor spectators...

That's true. But still I do not think that it really supports what Mayox said above. No Brazilian in F1, so.... they are moving the track from one city to another??? How does that make sense? There was no Brazilian driver last year either, did the crowd avoid the race?

The one thing that I agree with the article, is the mention of the dangers of the Interlagos and surrounding areas; without knowing if Rio is safer than Sao Paulo of course (although Sao Paulo is reportedly a safer city than Rio when I looked this up on the net, I have never been there personally, so go figure).


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 1:25 pm 
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Nooooo! Interlagos ought to be the season finale every year. Almost always causes an upset whether it's a wet race, first corner crash, broken gearbox up the hill, overtakes along the main straight. The infield allows the cars to get close and then the main straight is basically an uphill drag race.


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 1:25 pm 
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Give Brazil two races a year!


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 1:29 pm 
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pendulumeffect wrote:
Give Brazil two races a year!


But they don't have a Brazilian driver!!!!

(Just jesting!)


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 1:31 pm 
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Harpo wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Mayox wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Mayox wrote:
No Brazilian driver in F1 so... it's a shame as this is one of the very few tracks that allows drivers to race...

So what? That's not the criteria for choosing the tracks on the calendar.


You serious here? :) F1 is a business...

It is, but drivers come and go. I don't think tracks are added to the calendar because of who is driving. We have Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Malaysia, Chia, Baku etc and none of those have driver representation


Nor spectators...

:lol:

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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 1:52 pm 
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Interlagos is a great circuit, seldom producing a bad race, full or drama, great racing and many of F1's finest moments.

But the location is problematic, and has been for years. The safety of the F1 personnel there every year has proven less than satisfactory - not to mention Brazil's ongoing political problems. Having F1 staff mugged every year is unacceptable, and ultimately this is caused by having a multi million dollar operation take part in middle one of the poorest and violent conurbations on the planet, with high levels of corruption.

Of course, it moving to Rio as part of a vanity project of a questionable, albeit legitimate, president is even less desirable.


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 1:55 pm 
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2003 Brazilian Grand Prix will be the most memorable race for me ever held at this circuit. The 2003 race we had witnessed was close to a rare kind of race.
- 5-7 cars crashing out at turn 3 due to aquaplaning.
- 3rd placed Alonso crashes, gets injured & misses the podium ceremony.
- The eventual winner's car (Fisichella) catches fire in the pitlane.
- Due to confusion, 2nd placed driver (Raikkonen) is declared winner but this result is overturned & the winner's trophy was handed to Fisichella by Raikkonen at the next grand prix.


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 1:59 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Interlagos is a great circuit, seldom producing a bad race, full or drama, great racing and many of F1's finest moments.

But the location is problematic, and has been for years. The safety of the F1 personnel there every year has proven less than satisfactory - not to mention Brazil's ongoing political problems. Having F1 staff mugged every year is unacceptable, and ultimately this is caused by having a multi million dollar operation take part in middle one of the poorest and violent conurbations on the planet, with high levels of corruption.

Of course, it moving to Rio as part of a vanity project of a questionable, albeit legitimate, president is even less desirable.


This has been the case for years indeed. I was working for a big multinational company in the late 90's that had instructed the personnel that travelled there to leave their watches and valuables at home and have some pocket money on them at all times; if they got mugged it would be better to give something rather than say "no"...

I also find it quite ironic that the new track in Rio is banking on the Senna name, when Senna was from Sao Paulo!!!


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 1:59 pm 
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[quote="Siao7"][quote="Harpo"][quote="Zoue"][quote="Mayox"][quote="Siao7"][quote="Mayox"][b]No Brazilian driver in F1 so...[/b] it's a shame as this is one of the very few tracks that allows drivers to race...[/quote]
So what? That's not the criteria for choosing the tracks on the calendar.[/quote]

You serious here? :) F1 is a business...[/quote]
It is, but drivers come and go. I don't think tracks are added to the calendar because of who is driving. We have Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Malaysia, Chia, Baku etc and [b]none of those have driver representation[/b][/quote]

Nor spectators...[/quote]
That's true. But still I do not think that it really supports what Mayox said above. No Brazilian in F1, so.... [/quote]

But I was agreeing with you, in fact. Who cares about drivers nationality, or dedication of the local spectators. Since Bernie turned F1 into a worldwide racket in exchange of a worldwide and yearly tele-novela, the only thing that matters is the size of wallet of the organizers. And the more they need to enhance their international reputation, the less they hesitate to please the owners of the show.
Which leads me to wonder, as a French citizen, what deadly sins (considering being a manipulative prima-dona is not even a sin, and since a long time) the politicians who bought back the French GP had to cover ?

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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:11 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Interlagos is a great circuit, seldom producing a bad race, full or drama, great racing and many of F1's finest moments.

But the location is problematic, and has been for years. The safety of the F1 personnel there every year has proven less than satisfactory - not to mention Brazil's ongoing political problems. Having F1 staff mugged every year is unacceptable, and ultimately this is caused by having a multi million dollar operation take part in middle one of the poorest and violent conurbations on the planet, with high levels of corruption.

Of course, it moving to Rio as part of a vanity project of a questionable, albeit legitimate, president is even less desirable.


This has been the case for years indeed. I was working for a big multinational company in the late 90's that had instructed the personnel that travelled there to leave their watches and valuables at home and have some pocket money on them at all times; if they got mugged it would be better to give something rather than say "no"...

I also find it quite ironic that the new track in Rio is banking on the Senna name, when Senna was from Sao Paulo!!!

Exactly why it is a vanity project - Bolsonaro knows Senna is exceptionally popular across Brazil and that will get many to blindly support it. But make no mistake, it will be his project (just like any leader in any country across the world proposing similar sorts of projects)

If it was genuinely a project about Senna then it would be in Sao Paulo - but as Sao Paulo already hosts it so doesn't need a new track (not to mention the running mate of his rival was mayor of Sao Paulo whereas his running mate has connections with Rio de Janeiro) - this has nothing to do with Formula 1 at all, it's just populist politics at work.


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:20 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Interlagos is a great circuit, seldom producing a bad race, full or drama, great racing and many of F1's finest moments.

But the location is problematic, and has been for years. The safety of the F1 personnel there every year has proven less than satisfactory - not to mention Brazil's ongoing political problems. Having F1 staff mugged every year is unacceptable, and ultimately this is caused by having a multi million dollar operation take part in middle one of the poorest and violent conurbations on the planet, with high levels of corruption.

Of course, it moving to Rio as part of a vanity project of a questionable, albeit legitimate, president is even less desirable.


This has been the case for years indeed. I was working for a big multinational company in the late 90's that had instructed the personnel that travelled there to leave their watches and valuables at home and have some pocket money on them at all times; if they got mugged it would be better to give something rather than say "no"...

I also find it quite ironic that the new track in Rio is banking on the Senna name, when Senna was from Sao Paulo!!!

Exactly why it is a vanity project - Bolsonaro knows Senna is exceptionally popular across Brazil and that will get many to blindly support it. But make no mistake, it will be his project (just like any leader in any country across the world proposing similar sorts of projects)

If it was genuinely a project about Senna then it would be in Sao Paulo - but as Sao Paulo already hosts it so doesn't need a new track (not to mention the running mate of his rival was mayor of Sao Paulo whereas his running mate has connections with Rio de Janeiro) - this has nothing to do with Formula 1 at all, it's just populist politics at work.


:thumbup: :nod:

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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:24 pm 
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Harpo wrote:

Who cares about drivers nationality, or dedication of the local spectators. Since Bernie turned F1 into a worldwide racket in exchange of a worldwide and yearly tele-novela, the only thing that matters is the size of wallet of the organizers.


In many countries the size of wallet depends from the fact if they have a driver or not... if they have the popularity of the sport is increasing, number of spectators is increasing, the sponsors are more interested to be involved and spend more money etc. It's just connected. It's not a "must" as Abu Zhabi can build a track and host a GP anytime just because they can, but I can guarantee there wouldn't be Dutch GP next year without Max


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:28 pm 
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Harpo wrote:

But I was agreeing with you, in fact. Who cares about drivers nationality, or dedication of the local spectators. Since Bernie turned F1 into a worldwide racket in exchange of a worldwide and yearly tele-novela, the only thing that matters is the size of wallet of the organizers. And the more they need to enhance their international reputation, the less they hesitate to please the owners of the show.
Which leads me to wonder, as a French citizen, what deadly sins (considering being a manipulative prima-dona is not even a sin, and since a long time) the politicians who bought back the French GP had to cover ?


haha, I was agreeing with you too!


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:30 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Interlagos is a great circuit, seldom producing a bad race, full or drama, great racing and many of F1's finest moments.

But the location is problematic, and has been for years. The safety of the F1 personnel there every year has proven less than satisfactory - not to mention Brazil's ongoing political problems. Having F1 staff mugged every year is unacceptable, and ultimately this is caused by having a multi million dollar operation take part in middle one of the poorest and violent conurbations on the planet, with high levels of corruption.

Of course, it moving to Rio as part of a vanity project of a questionable, albeit legitimate, president is even less desirable.


This has been the case for years indeed. I was working for a big multinational company in the late 90's that had instructed the personnel that travelled there to leave their watches and valuables at home and have some pocket money on them at all times; if they got mugged it would be better to give something rather than say "no"...

I also find it quite ironic that the new track in Rio is banking on the Senna name, when Senna was from Sao Paulo!!!

Exactly why it is a vanity project - Bolsonaro knows Senna is exceptionally popular across Brazil and that will get many to blindly support it. But make no mistake, it will be his project (just like any leader in any country across the world proposing similar sorts of projects)

If it was genuinely a project about Senna then it would be in Sao Paulo - but as Sao Paulo already hosts it so doesn't need a new track (not to mention the running mate of his rival was mayor of Sao Paulo whereas his running mate has connections with Rio de Janeiro) - this has nothing to do with Formula 1 at all, it's just populist politics at work.


Well said. And that's why I find it ironic, nothing to do with Senna, nothing to do with a track at Brazil. Purely a vanity project


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:48 pm 
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Mayox wrote:
Harpo wrote:

Who cares about drivers nationality, or dedication of the local spectators. Since Bernie turned F1 into a worldwide racket in exchange of a worldwide and yearly tele-novela, the only thing that matters is the size of wallet of the organizers.


In many countries the size of wallet depends from the fact if they have a driver or not... if they have the popularity of the sport is increasing, number of spectators is increasing, the sponsors are more interested to be involved and spend more money etc. It's just connected. It's not a "must" as Abu Zhabi can build a track and host a GP anytime just because they can, but I can guarantee there wouldn't be Dutch GP next year without Max


Agreed, but that's not the case for all countries. It came across like that in your first post that I objected. So many countries made it through various periods of time without any drivers in the WDC, purely because the track produced very good races (and economic reasons I guess). Hungary, Japan, Spa, Spain, Germany, Aus, Canada, etc.

Of course a local driver will attract more local crowds, but it is not the only criteria. And frankly, the popularity of the sport increases if the local driver is any good or not; I am not sure if Vandoorne brought the crowd in Spa, nor did Merhi for the Spanish GP for example.

But talking about Brazil, it is one of the tracks that I described above. Always producing memorable races, a really good track that drivers love. Maybe Senna's popularity and nostalgia has played part to it's survival, but there have been many years without a Brazilian driver and it never really went down in popularity.


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 3:23 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Mayox wrote:
Harpo wrote:

Who cares about drivers nationality, or dedication of the local spectators. Since Bernie turned F1 into a worldwide racket in exchange of a worldwide and yearly tele-novela, the only thing that matters is the size of wallet of the organizers.


In many countries the size of wallet depends from the fact if they have a driver or not... if they have the popularity of the sport is increasing, number of spectators is increasing, the sponsors are more interested to be involved and spend more money etc. It's just connected. It's not a "must" as Abu Zhabi can build a track and host a GP anytime just because they can, but I can guarantee there wouldn't be Dutch GP next year without Max


Agreed, but that's not the case for all countries. It came across like that in your first post that I objected. So many countries made it through various periods of time without any drivers in the WDC, purely because the track produced very good races (and economic reasons I guess). Hungary, Japan, Spa, Spain, Germany, Aus, Canada, etc.

Of course a local driver will attract more local crowds, but it is not the only criteria. And frankly, the popularity of the sport increases if the local driver is any good or not; I am not sure if Vandoorne brought the crowd in Spa, nor did Merhi for the Spanish GP for example.

But talking about Brazil, it is one of the tracks that I described above. Always producing memorable races, a really good track that drivers love. Maybe Senna's popularity and nostalgia has played part to it's survival, but there have been many years without a Brazilian driver and it never really went down in popularity.


Hungary is a track I just don't understand. One of the worst in the calendar, impossible to overtake, boring as hell... seems like the local market is also not attractive or rich... don't understand why they didn't drop it yet...


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 3:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15748
Mayox wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Mayox wrote:
Harpo wrote:

Who cares about drivers nationality, or dedication of the local spectators. Since Bernie turned F1 into a worldwide racket in exchange of a worldwide and yearly tele-novela, the only thing that matters is the size of wallet of the organizers.


In many countries the size of wallet depends from the fact if they have a driver or not... if they have the popularity of the sport is increasing, number of spectators is increasing, the sponsors are more interested to be involved and spend more money etc. It's just connected. It's not a "must" as Abu Zhabi can build a track and host a GP anytime just because they can, but I can guarantee there wouldn't be Dutch GP next year without Max


Agreed, but that's not the case for all countries. It came across like that in your first post that I objected. So many countries made it through various periods of time without any drivers in the WDC, purely because the track produced very good races (and economic reasons I guess). Hungary, Japan, Spa, Spain, Germany, Aus, Canada, etc.

Of course a local driver will attract more local crowds, but it is not the only criteria. And frankly, the popularity of the sport increases if the local driver is any good or not; I am not sure if Vandoorne brought the crowd in Spa, nor did Merhi for the Spanish GP for example.

But talking about Brazil, it is one of the tracks that I described above. Always producing memorable races, a really good track that drivers love. Maybe Senna's popularity and nostalgia has played part to it's survival, but there have been many years without a Brazilian driver and it never really went down in popularity.


Hungary is a track I just don't understand. One of the worst in the calendar, impossible to overtake, boring as hell... seems like the local market is also not attractive or rich... don't understand why they didn't drop it yet...


The Hungarian Grand Prix has been as good as most in recent years. The track got a bad reputation after some dull races in the early 00s but has been very good value more recently.

The track is pretty unique in F1 as well. If you were picking on merit it would be on my calendar.


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 3:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 7621
mikeyg123 wrote:
Mayox wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Mayox wrote:
Harpo wrote:

Who cares about drivers nationality, or dedication of the local spectators. Since Bernie turned F1 into a worldwide racket in exchange of a worldwide and yearly tele-novela, the only thing that matters is the size of wallet of the organizers.


In many countries the size of wallet depends from the fact if they have a driver or not... if they have the popularity of the sport is increasing, number of spectators is increasing, the sponsors are more interested to be involved and spend more money etc. It's just connected. It's not a "must" as Abu Zhabi can build a track and host a GP anytime just because they can, but I can guarantee there wouldn't be Dutch GP next year without Max


Agreed, but that's not the case for all countries. It came across like that in your first post that I objected. So many countries made it through various periods of time without any drivers in the WDC, purely because the track produced very good races (and economic reasons I guess). Hungary, Japan, Spa, Spain, Germany, Aus, Canada, etc.

Of course a local driver will attract more local crowds, but it is not the only criteria. And frankly, the popularity of the sport increases if the local driver is any good or not; I am not sure if Vandoorne brought the crowd in Spa, nor did Merhi for the Spanish GP for example.

But talking about Brazil, it is one of the tracks that I described above. Always producing memorable races, a really good track that drivers love. Maybe Senna's popularity and nostalgia has played part to it's survival, but there have been many years without a Brazilian driver and it never really went down in popularity.


Hungary is a track I just don't understand. One of the worst in the calendar, impossible to overtake, boring as hell... seems like the local market is also not attractive or rich... don't understand why they didn't drop it yet...


The Hungarian Grand Prix has been as good as most in recent years. The track got a bad reputation after some dull races in the early 00s but has been very good value more recently.

The track is pretty unique in F1 as well. If you were picking on merit it would be on my calendar.


I think it changed layout at some point to promote overtaking sometime in the 00's. Yeah, a processional track, but quite technical and I'd certainly axe others before this one


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 4:15 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 12:46 pm
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Location: McKinney, TX
Sensational track, in the top three in my opinion, and you can make a case for it being the best track in F1. It provides everything, and is very unique.

This is a mistake; the issues it has could be solved for far less money than building a new track.

Sad, sad day.

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I'd rather die than be overtaken.


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